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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  09:00:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Bill scott

Originally posted by Gorgo



Sorry Bill I have trouble rooting for those "who work for humanity" by saying that I am going to rot for eternity in hellfire and who advocate violence against those who don't believe what they do.



But you would blame those "who work for humanity" if you did reach hell at your end and no one had warned you of the coming danger ahead of time. It is not the fault of the one who has knowledge of the coming danger and gives you the warning if you choose to ignore it. But if they had the knowledge and just refused to warn you then you might have a beef. At that point, "Why didn't you warn me?" becomes a valid question.



I can't recall any SH quotes implying or hoping for you to suffer for all eternity or to wipe out the believers.


And I can't recall hoping this myself. Nor was it my quotes that implied anything about what we can expect after death.




We are not gleeful at every deathbed for believers, just the really big scumbags.


And I would assume in your world that it is you who gets to decide who is a scumbag and who ain't. That eye of the beholder thing.


NOT originally posted by Gorgo.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  09:31:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Right, they tell me I'm going to Hell because I've never heard of Christianity before and never got the message. Perhaps you should remove the Crayola from your nose.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  09:52:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by River Otter



Bill Scott! What a repulsive display of disrespect! I can't believe what I just read, was written by a so-called Christian! You should be ashamed of yourself!


Oh good grief. The dude said Hawking was going to make a full recovery and that this was great. I simply reminded him that Hawking's "full recovery" was simply that we wasn't going to die today, and that he is still bound to his wheelchair in a horrible state. This was on a backwoods internet forum. It was not a personal get well email sent to Hawkings from me reminding him of his condition, even after the "recovery", and me saying to him that everything was great! Let's not blow things out of proportion here folks. For a hardcore skeptics forum you people sure have some thin skin all of a sudden and like to become ultra-dramatic.



Oh! Right! I'm sure this forum didn't trash the person for their disability like you just did.



And just how did I trash the person for his disability?



You didn't even make a good point.


Well good point or not the point was valid. Hawking will be bound to his wheelchair and in a horrible state no matter how much hope and faith is placed in science and modern medicine and his ability to completely recover. And then eventually, whether in 3 days or 3 years, he will die. Whether you find that point good or not does not make it any less valid.



You only made yourself look like an ignorant, petty, bigoted, inconciderate, disrespectful, jackass.


Now wait a minute! Your going to lecture me on respect and then start calling me names like some spoiled elementary aged school child?!?!?!?!



Try practicing what you PREACH!


That is rich coming from you right after your tantrum.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

Edited by - Bill scott on 04/21/2009 09:58:21
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  09:56:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Gorgo

Originally posted by Bill scott

Originally posted by Gorgo



Sorry Bill I have trouble rooting for those "who work for humanity" by saying that I am going to rot for eternity in hellfire and who advocate violence against those who don't believe what they do.



But you would blame those "who work for humanity" if you did reach hell at your end and no one had warned you of the coming danger ahead of time. It is not the fault of the one who has knowledge of the coming danger and gives you the warning if you choose to ignore it. But if they had the knowledge and just refused to warn you then you might have a beef. At that point, "Why didn't you warn me?" becomes a valid question.



I can't recall any SH quotes implying or hoping for you to suffer for all eternity or to wipe out the believers.


And I can't recall hoping this myself. Nor was it my quotes that implied anything about what we can expect after death.




We are not gleeful at every deathbed for believers, just the really big scumbags.


And I would assume in your world that it is you who gets to decide who is a scumbag and who ain't. That eye of the beholder thing.


NOT originally posted by Gorgo.


My bad. I revised my post. It was from BigPapaSmurf

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  10:09:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

Right, they tell me I'm going to Hell because I've never heard of Christianity before and never got the message. Perhaps you should remove the Crayola from your nose.


Who told you what?

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  10:20:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bill:
Good deal, full recovery? Don't you mean it looks like Hawking might get a few more years to sit in his wheelchair and slobber on himself? And then he will die.

All the hope in the world for the best and faith in modern medicine might get him a few more years of sitting in his chair at best, but he will die, and then the judgment.


Dear God I pray that even in his midnight hour that you might remove the blinders from Mr. Hawkings eyes that he might know your love and grace before his journey into eternity begins. It is in Jesus name that I ask things Father God, Amen.


Well Bill. You can sure get a thread going. Too bad you must resort to inanities to accomplish it.

The quality of life that Hawking has lived for the last 40 years, and his choice to continue to add to our knowledge, instead of spending all of his time wondering why he was dealt the hand he got, shines as a very bright light for those who might have chosen self pity instead, were we in his shoes.
His very existence serves as a testament that within us all there lives a noble part that we can access if we choose to. It's up to us to make of our lives what we well. Bill, you won't find his disability in his writings. (Not that you have read them.) It is you who has looked at Hawking and focused on his flaws. And that failing to comprehend the whole man is completely your own. Your shallowness has thus been exposed by your own words.

But more to the point. You knew perfectly well that your post was really bait. You were trolling for the response you got. It was a premeditated attempt to illicit outrage. Either that or you really are as shallow as a birdbath and too stupid and arrogant to even consider the possibility that you don't know the mind of God, who, if you are right about there being an all powerful and knowing God, put Hawking here for a purpose.

I should get you for trolling. And believe me, I am tempted.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  10:46:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He's not said that Hawking is an asshole. He has not even said that Hawking should be condemned to some fate or other. He has said that Hawking will NOT make a full recovery. That is a statement of fact, and while I wouldn't have chosen his wording, I don't see it as an attempt to insult anyone, but to say that he will come out of this completely healthy takes something away from what Hawking has to deal with. That he will suffer and die is a statement of fact. Now, you and I can agree that Bill is deluded, but this doesn't exceed some of the insulting behavior that you have allowed in others without comment. If you're saying he's been crude, then I can point you to a few more statements made here that are a lot cruder.

Now, maybe I'm wrong about him. Maybe he means to be insulting, but I wonder why you don't have to be a mind reader to know his intent.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  11:12:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bill, we've had people on these boards that I would have expected your remarks from, but until now, you were not among them. I must ask that you revise your thoughts on Hawking -- he is acknowledged as one of the finest physicists, ever. And he likes to be a physicist; it fulfills him, even confined to a wheelchair. And he has been a great resource for the advancement of human knowledge, and with any luck at all, will continue to be so.

Bill, you do the best you can with what you've got and Hawking has far exceeded with a hell of a lot less than mst of us. He has not squatted in his wheelchair and whined about how that asshole God has screwed him over -- unlike many (most?) preachers snivel about the how government won't let them evangelize in the science classroom. He's never complained about his condition, has advanced his field of study, and has earned the respect of hos peers, of which neither you nor I are among.

He has my profound respect.

Lemme ask you something: what did Jerry Falwell (and yes, I'm glad he's shuffled off this mortal coil and would that he done us that service sooner) ever do for the community beyond trying to subvert the political process and educate others to do the same? Oh, and raise money -- let us not forget that. What service does Ken Ham perform for the community beyond providing a butt for jokes? Oh, and raise money.

To lose Hawking is to lose an international treasure too soon, at any time.

Think about it -- I'm with River Otter on this one.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  11:13:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Gorgo

He's not said that Hawking is an asshole. He has not even said that Hawking should be condemned to some fate or other. He has said that Hawking will NOT make a full recovery. That is a statement of fact, and while I wouldn't have chosen his wording, I don't see it as an attempt to insult anyone, but to say that he will come out of this completely healthy takes something away from what Hawking has to deal with. That he will suffer and die is a statement of fact. Now, you and I can agree that Bill is deluded, but this doesn't exceed some of the insulting behavior that you have allowed in others without comment. If you're saying he's been crude, then I can point you to a few more statements made here that are a lot cruder.

Now, maybe I'm wrong about him. Maybe he means to be insulting, but I wonder why you don't have to be a mind reader to know his intent.


Gorgo. Aside from not suggesting any of the stuff you wrote above, and that you seem to think I am unfair in my treatment of people, depending on their point of view, I do see what Bill wrote as “throwing out bait”.

And while I don't approve of ad hom attacks and much of the less than civil discussions that have gone on here, especially in the past, there are more ways than one to be rude and disruptive. And there were several approaches Bill could have taken that would not have resulted in my response to his post. What Bill did, in my view, was probably intended to provoke a harsh response, and not a thoughtful discussion.

As you can see above, I did not warn him in any official way, or ban him or anything else. I did not fly off the handle, lose my head or treat him unfairly. I called it as I saw it.



Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  11:23:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote

As you can see above, I did not warn him in any official way, or ban him or anything else. I did not fly off the handle, lose my head or treat him unfairly. I called it as I saw it.


I understand that, and appreciate that, hopefully, I didn't fly off the handle or treat you unfairly, and just called it as I saw it. You have a longer relationship with him than I do, and I would not have said what he said the way that he said it. However, saying you "should" do something to him but you won't, is kind of, well, I don't know what it is, but it is different than just saying you disagree with him.

I'm not sure what you mean by the first sentence, "aside from....."

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 04/21/2009 11:24:13
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  11:28:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil



Well Bill. You can sure get a thread going. Too bad you must resort to inanities to accomplish it.

The quality of life that Hawking has lived for the last 40 years, and his choice to continue to add to our knowledge, instead of spending all of his time wondering why he was dealt the hand he got, shines as a very bright light for those who may have chosen self pity instead.
His very existence serves as a testament that within us all there lives a noble part that we can access if we choose to. It's up to us to make of our lives what we well. Bill, you won't find his disability in his writings. (Not that you have read them.)


Ever heard of Joni Eareckson Tada? My personal hero who just so happens to be disabled as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joni_Eareckson_Tada


It is you who has looked at Hawking and focused on his flaws.


Non-Sense


And that failing to comprehend the man is completely your own. Your shallowness has thus been exposed by your own words.


You gathered all that just from me reminding Randy that Hawkings "complete recovery" is really rather limited and that is not great?

For a people who claim they would rather want to deal with a cold, dark, and cruel reality then sugar coat it you people sure do have a tough time dealing with the cold hard facts of that reality.


But more to the point. You knew perfectly well that your post was really bait. You were trolling for the response you got. It was a premeditated attempt to illicit outrage.


To be honest, I was a little shocked at the outrage of me simply pointing out Hawking's reality for Randy. I thought you guys thrived on the cold harsh reality's of this world?


Either that or you really are as shallow as a birdbath and too stupid and arrogant to even consider the possibility that you don't know the mind of God,


This coming from the fellow who just claimed that he can read my mind and motives. That is rich.


who, if you are right about there being an all powerful and knowing God, put Hawking here for a purpose.


And?

I should get you for trolling. And believe me, I am tempted.


You can't be serious?

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25997 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  11:40:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by Bill scott

I have seen this forum trash many of people on their deathbed who's work for humanity far out reaches yours, mine or Hawkings...
Name one.
Still waiting on an answer.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  11:49:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I shouldnt post anywhere while Im in the quitting smoking phase, I am a damn timebomb over here.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  11:52:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To Gorgo. I'm sorry if I was't clear. I didn't suggest that Bill was calling Hawking and asshole or that a complete recovery (which implies no more ALS) is in the cards for him. Though I would suggest that it didn't need to be said. And because it didn't need to be said, I suspect that Bill only brought it up the point to be argumentative.

Bill:
You gathered all that just from me reminding Randy that Hawkings "complete recovery" is really rather limited and that is not great?

No. I gathered that from taking your whole post into account. And while I may be wrong about your intent, I doubt that I am.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  12:23:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy



Bill, we've had people on these boards that I would have expected your remarks from, but until now, you were not among them.


Oh no, not you to! All I did was remind Randy that Hawking is not looking at a "full recovery" and even if he was he would still die eventually anyway, which is a fate shared by all, not just Hawking.

As Gorgo said, this is not a positive statement for hawking just as it is not a negative one against him. It's just a statement of fact. Hawking is bound to a wheelchair in a horrible state and then he will die. No amount of faith in science or modern meds can change this fact. My whole point was that even if a full recovery was available for hawking he would still eventually die at some point anyway and that we all shared in his fate to one degree or another. Somehow the forum, minus Gorgo, interpreted that to mean that I was making fun of Hawking because he was bound to a chair?!?!?!?!?!?



I must ask that you revise your thoughts on Hawking


Why? My thoughts about Hawking have nothing to do with his condition.



-- he is acknowledged as one of the finest physicists, ever. And he likes to be a physicist; it fulfills him, even confined to a wheelchair. And he has been a great resource for the advancement of human knowledge,


I never denied this, at all.



Bill, you do the best you can with what you've got and Hawking has far exceeded with a hell of a lot less than mst of us. He has not squatted in his wheelchair and whined about how that asshole God has screwed him over


I would not expect him to. From what I understand he would deny God before blaming him.



-- unlike many (most?) preachers snivel about the how government won't let them evangelize in the science classroom. He's never complained about his condition, has advanced his field of study, and has earned the respect of hos peers, of which neither you nor I are among.


Ok, lets slow down here. He is an accomplished scientist, but he never rose from the dead.



He has my profound respect.


Fine. He is a great man, we are all better off because of him blah, blah, blah... but what does that have to with me reminding Randy that his recovery is limited, which is not great, and that we all die?


Lemme ask you something: what did Jerry Falwell (and yes, I'm glad he's shuffled off this mortal coil and would that he done us that service sooner) ever do for the community beyond trying to subvert the political process and educate others to do the same?


Jerry Falwell? Now how in the world did he come into the conversation?



Oh, and raise money -- let us not forget that. What service does Ken Ham perform for the community beyond providing a butt for jokes? Oh, and raise money.


Ken Hamm? Now how in the world did he come into the conversation?


I am not all that up to speed with the day to day activities of either so I won't comment on them, but how many soup kitchens are run by "religious" people? How many homeless shelters? To think your boy Hawkings has a monopoly on "goods works" is silly and a moot point when discussing the limits of his recovery.


To lose Hawking is to lose an international treasure too soon, at any time.


Noted.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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