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Randy
SFN Regular

USA
1989 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2009 :  16:18:45  Show Profile Send Randy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Let's watch a crop of reason grow with this idea.

"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."

"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2009 :  16:56:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Randy

Let's watch a crop of reason grow with this idea.

MEDIA ADVISORY, June 23 /Christian Newswire/ – According to a recent survey, more than a third of professors at the top fifty universities describe themselves as atheist or agnostic. Among biology professors, it's a whopping 61%. It's no surprise then that belief in atheism has doubled in the college age bracket in the last 20 years. Best selling author, Ray Comfort, said, “Keeping intelligent design out of schools, is a hill to die on for evolutionists, so when I found that Charles Darwin's Origin of Species was available in the public domain, I had an idea that would get the truth onto college campuses. We are therefore reproducing Origin of Species in an abridged form (280 pages) with an added ‘Special Introduction.'”

This introduction gives a timeline of Darwin's life, and his thoughts on the existence of God. It lists the theories of many hoaxes, exposes the unscientific belief that nothing created everything, points to the incredible structure of DNA, and notes the absence of any undisputed transitional forms. To show the dangerous fruit of evolution, it also mentions Hitler's undeniable connections to the theory, Darwin's racism, and his distain for women. In addition, it counters the claim that creationists are “anti-science” by citing numerous scientists who believed that God created the universe — scientists such as Einstein, Newton, Copernicus, Bacon, Faraday, Pasteur, and Kepler...


Ray Comfort is as big a nutball as Kent Hovind ever was. Maybe bigger...


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2009 :  17:07:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Randy

Let's watch a crop of reason grow with this idea.
Pz has some not-very-kind remarks on this latest piece of Comfort nonsense. The guy has brain damage, I declare he does. It shows up in the first paragraph of the article:


MEDIA ADVISORY, June 23 /Christian Newswire/ – According to a recent survey, more than a third of professors at the top fifty universities describe themselves as atheist or agnostic. Among biology professors, it's a whopping 61%. It's no surprise then that belief in atheism has doubled in the college age bracket in the last 20 years. Best selling author, Ray Comfort, said, “Keeping intelligent design out of schools, is a hill to die on for evolutionists, so when I found that Charles Darwin's Origin of Species was available in the public domain, I had an idea that would get the truth onto college campuses. We are therefore reproducing Origin of Species in an abridged form (280 pages) with an added ‘Special Introduction.'”
Bolding mine.

According to PZ (I haven't read this evident tripe and won't bother) he has merely quote mined Darwin's work to suit his own viewpoint. I rather doubt it'll have a lot of impact on higher education.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2009 :  17:23:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, great. They "abridge" Origins, then add Creationist material.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2009 :  17:26:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Oh, great. They "abridge" Origins, then add Creationist material.


Yup. Comfort's a trip, ain't he?




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2009 :  18:48:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, PZ wrote about this, and anyone can read the introduction for free (the last 13 of the 50 pages is just Ray's dumb argument in favor of faith).

So the 150th anniversary edition of Origin is 576 pages. Ray's is 330 pages (intro included). So he's chopped out an astounding 246 pages of Origin, something close to half of it. It'll be interesting to see what, exactly, got hacked out.

(Ironically, in Ray's introduction, he cites a completely different edition of Origin for a quote! He must have "abridged" that part in his own edition.)

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2009 :  19:28:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hope people keep an eye out for this Creationist screed. There's likely to be teachers who will use it in their classrooms, and even school boards who will send it to their science teachers. Fighting the introduction of this Creationist Frankenstein's monster in public schools may be the next big problem for NCSE.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2009 :  20:01:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

I hope people keep an eye out for this Creationist screed. There's likely to be teachers who will use it in their classrooms, and even school boards who will send it to their science teachers.
I don't think it's actually in print quite yet. I think they're going to take lots of bulk orders until they get enough to get the printing costs below 99 cents a copy, and then print it. The smallest quantity one can order is 50. The book isn't available singly in their own bookshop. So, I suspect it's going to be a while.

Edited to add that there's no hint of the book on the Bridge-Logos website. They're allegedly the publisher. But the book doesn't even appear in their "coming soon" list.
Fighting the introduction of this Creationist Frankenstein's monster in public schools may be the next big problem for NCSE.
Nah. Have you read the introduction? It will be a blatant violation of the First Amendment for any teacher to use this book in any official fashion. It's not an attempt to "sneak" religion in, it's a full-on frontal assault of the sort that was ruled out by the Supreme Court in the 1960s.

The only thing that this book is going to do is exactly what Ray intends: when the book is thrown out, as it will be, he'll be able to say that scientists and atheists have banned Darwin's Origin from schools, and only have it be half as much a lie as if he said it right now. Really, it's a lot more trouble to go through that need be, because if he just told the obvious lie right now (that atheists have banned Origin from schools), his followers would believe him unquestioningly, and his detractors would get no answer when asking Ray for evidence.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2009 :  20:13:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Whoa! Big changes!

When I first looked at the introduction, it was just the introduction. I'm sure of this, I read all the way to the end (couldn't scroll down any more).

But the PDF file I just opened (to look at some page numbers) is now the full 280-page book! The abridged version of Origin begins on page 57 of the PDF!

(I have saved the file, just in case it was a mistake.)

So forget my earlier numbers. This version of Origin is only 223 pages long without Ray's intro (making it even more abridged). Now all I need to do is find a whole lot of spare time to compare Ray's version to Darwin's, and see what's missing...

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2009 :  20:41:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, geez. In the full PDF file, Ray tells us this:
[Abridged chapters: Intro. CHAPTER X: ON THE GEOLOGICAL
SUCCESSION OF ORGANIC BEINGS. CHAPTER XI: GEOGRAPHICAL
DISTRIBUTION. CHAPTER XII: GEOGRAPHICAL DISTRIBUTION—
continued. CHAPTER XIII: MUTUAL AFFINITIES OF
ORGANIC BEINGS: MORPHOLOGY: EMBRYOLOGY: RUDIMENTARY
ORGANS.]

NOTE: THESE MAY BE FREELY DOWNLOADED FROM WWW.
ORIGINEXTRA.COM
At that site, one can download originextra.pdf, which is a mere 55 pages (of much smaller text), and one is asked to visit NeedGod.com, another Ray Comfort production.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2009 :  02:07:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey, why don't we put together a butchered "abridged" version of the Bible, with everything taken out except the genocide, bigotry, and silly-ass myths? (Oops, better take most of that out, too, since that's the bulk of the book.) Throw in introductions and commentary by famous atheists. Call it "The Holy Bible: Improved Edition." Send it to fundy churches and Christian schools all over the place. Then film the Bible bonfires they hold.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2009 :  02:18:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by HalfMooner

I hope people keep an eye out for this Creationist screed. There's likely to be teachers who will use it in their classrooms, and even school boards who will send it to their science teachers.
I don't think it's actually in print quite yet. I think they're going to take lots of bulk orders until they get enough to get the printing costs below 99 cents a copy, and then print it. The smallest quantity one can order is 50. The book isn't available singly in their own bookshop. So, I suspect it's going to be a while.

Edited to add that there's no hint of the book on the Bridge-Logos website. They're allegedly the publisher. But the book doesn't even appear in their "coming soon" list.
Fighting the introduction of this Creationist Frankenstein's monster in public schools may be the next big problem for NCSE.
Nah. Have you read the introduction? It will be a blatant violation of the First Amendment for any teacher to use this book in any official fashion. It's not an attempt to "sneak" religion in, it's a full-on frontal assault of the sort that was ruled out by the Supreme Court in the 1960s.

The only thing that this book is going to do is exactly what Ray intends: when the book is thrown out, as it will be, he'll be able to say that scientists and atheists have banned Darwin's Origin from schools, and only have it be half as much a lie as if he said it right now. Really, it's a lot more trouble to go through that need be, because if he just told the obvious lie right now (that atheists have banned Origin from schools), his followers would believe him unquestioningly, and his detractors would get no answer when asking Ray for evidence.
Y'know, you're probably right. I had thought it was possibly a silly ploy -- Origin of Species and Darwin's likeness on the cover -- to simply have the students carry it into class on their own. Then, when it gets spat upon by the biology instructors and the kid told to leave it at home, Ray can squeal about academic discrimination, nation-wide.

Either way, it's typical of Creationist dishonesty; their utter lack of morals and ethics.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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The Rat
SFN Regular

Canada
1342 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2009 :  19:56:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit The Rat's Homepage Send The Rat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hope that I live long enough to shit on the graves of the bastards responsible for this.

Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.

You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II

Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2009 :  01:50:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by The Rat

I hope that I live long enough to shit on the graves of the bastards responsible for this.
A satisfying but futile gesture. I might suggest digging him up and donating his skeleton to an evolutionary biology classroom. That's also a futile gesture and a lot of hard work, but it's the greater insult.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2009 :  07:47:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Meh; I suspect that Ken Ham, by a twist of his God's meanness; is in fact an out of time member of a transitional species. Maybe an advance Homo ergaster.
His skeleton would only confuse students and, ironically, give credence to his crazy.

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Landrew
New Member

44 Posts

Posted - 06/27/2009 :  10:17:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Landrew a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Some say the aliens will not contact us until such a time when we have shed the last vestige of the brain cancer called religion. Somehow I find that one easier to buy than the creationists' load of codswallop.

God bless women, for without them there would be no cookies.
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