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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/27/2009 : 16:54:09
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I have yet to seen a Creationist argument that wasn't filled with logical fallacies, and, in all truth, I've committed a few myself although I work hard to avoid it, as does any skeptic.
Anyhow, Dr. Jason Lisle, of AiG, is writing a series of articles in, I think, the hope of keeping Creationists from looking so foolish so often. I shall be keeping track of it so's y'all don't have to.
Here's the kickoff:
Logical Fallacies: Introduction
by Dr. Jason Lisle, AiG–U.S. onJuly 27, 2009LaymanKeywords
author-jason-lislelogiclogical-fallacies-seriesA New Series:
Logical Fallacies
Logic can be a valuable tool for Christians to defend their faith. But mistakes in reasoning can derail even the best argument.
Whenever I hear people debating some issue (abortion, gun control, origins, religion, politics, etc.), I often spot a number of mistakes in their arguments. Mistakes in reasoning are called “logical fallacies,” and they abound in origins debates. I have often thought it would be fun to carry a little buzzer that I could push when someone makes a fundamental mistake in reasoning. Of course, that would be impolite. However, we should all become familiar with logical fallacies so that our mental buzzer goes off whenever we hear a mistake in reasoning.
Logic (the study of correct and incorrect reasoning) has become a lost skill in our culture. And that is a shame. It is a very valuable tool, particularly for the Christian who wants to defend his or her faith better. Evolutionists often commit logical fallacies, and it is important that creationists learn to identify and refute such faulty reasoning. Sadly, I often see creationists committing logical fallacies as well. There is hardly anything more embarrassing than someone who advocates your position, but does so using bad reasoning!
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We shall see...
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Edited by - filthy on 07/27/2009 16:58:35
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 07/27/2009 : 17:29:37 [Permalink]
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Yeah, this should be entertaining!
His last paragraph promises some use of logical fallacy already.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2009 : 17:49:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Yeah, this should be entertaining!
His last paragraph promises some use of logical fallacy already.
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Indeed. He's beaten before he even starts because his entire premise is based upon a 6,000 YO Earth with only Biblical support, and is therefore an ad verecundiam fallacy in itself. I really want to see how he gets around it.
If he simply sticks to defining the list -- red herring, straw man, slippery slope, ad nauseum, and so forth -- he could do alright (and bore us to distraction). But I don't think he'll do that. I think he'll tune it to the creation premise, and then we'll have some fun picking it apart.
I can't wait for the next installment!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2009 : 07:41:56 [Permalink]
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I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Tipok
New Member
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 17:58:21 [Permalink]
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Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth. |
Atheists also often times are too stubborn to accept the truth when encountered by it to keep evolution alive. They do this by hiding any evidence they can that conflicts with evolution from the public, and also by creating/manipulating false evidence for the case of evolution because they cannot explain so many of evolution's claims. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 18:11:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Tipok
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth. |
Atheists also often times are too stubborn to accept the truth when encountered by it to keep evolution alive. They do this by hiding any evidence they can that conflicts with evolution from the public, and also by creating/manipulating false evidence for the case of evolution because they cannot explain so many of evolution's claims.
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Well Tipok, you have just made a whole lot of accusations. Care to support any of them with some evidence? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Tipok
New Member
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 18:40:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by Tipok
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth. |
Atheists also often times are too stubborn to accept the truth when encountered by it to keep evolution alive. They do this by hiding any evidence they can that conflicts with evolution from the public, and also by creating/manipulating false evidence for the case of evolution because they cannot explain so many of evolution's claims.
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Well Tipok, you have just made a whole lot of accusations. Care to support any of them with some evidence?
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If you would like to provide some evidence that mutations can possibly form organs over time without making the organism inferior to others of its kind with an incomplete organ so that it cannot survive in its environment or how sexual reproduction could possibly have evolved if the two organisms who initially reached it in evolution would have to be in the same place at the same time and to suddenly know how to even pull it off if they were the very first to have encountered the idea of two organisms being required to work together to create offspring and how natural selection would not have killed them off before they could get far at all because it's obviously easier to reproduce if you don't have to have another organism help you, then I'd gladly give you some evidence.  |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
 Posted - 08/02/2009 : 18:52:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Tipok
Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by Tipok
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth. |
Atheists also often times are too stubborn to accept the truth when encountered by it to keep evolution alive. They do this by hiding any evidence they can that conflicts with evolution from the public, and also by creating/manipulating false evidence for the case of evolution because they cannot explain so many of evolution's claims.
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Well Tipok, you have just made a whole lot of accusations. Care to support any of them with some evidence?
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If you would like to provide some evidence that mutations can possibly form organs over time without making the organism inferior to others of its kind with an incomplete organ so that it cannot survive in its environment or how sexual reproduction could possibly have evolved if the two organisms who initially reached it in evolution would have to be in the same place at the same time and to suddenly know how to even pull it off if they were the very first to have encountered the idea of two organisms being required to work together to create offspring and how natural selection would not have killed them off before they could get far at all because it's obviously easier to reproduce if you don't have to have another organism help you, then I'd gladly give you some evidence.
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So, you're a troll?
You made accusations. Now support them.
Everything you asked for has been answered, by the way. (You should close your creationist comic book and get yourself a science book.} But see, I'm not going to play games with you. You made the accusations. Now support them or I will consider you a common troll. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Tipok
New Member
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 19:08:27 [Permalink]
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So, you're a troll?
You made accusations. Now support them.
Everything you asked for has been answered, by the way. (You should close your creationist comic book and get yourself a science book.} But see, I'm not going to play games with you. You made the accusations. Now support them or I will consider you a common troll.
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You evolutionists are all the same. Take on a monopoly over all education to the public by knocking down all creationists by calling them whatever you please as long as it prevents any truth about evolution getting out and actually being considered truth.
If you're just gonna say that all that I asked has been answered without even saying anything about it, I may as well do so too:
Everything I accused evolution of has been supported by evidence that evolutionists have hid and denied over time so that Creation cannot arise and be the only theory of origins because so many Atheists don't want to have to admit that there is a God. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 19:14:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Tipok
So, you're a troll?
You made accusations. Now support them.
Everything you asked for has been answered, by the way. (You should close your creationist comic book and get yourself a science book.} But see, I'm not going to play games with you. You made the accusations. Now support them or I will consider you a common troll.
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You evolutionists are all the same. Take on a monopoly over all education to the public by knocking down all creationists by calling them whatever you please as long as it prevents any truth about evolution getting out and actually being considered truth.
If you're just gonna say that all that I asked has been answered without even saying anything about it, I may as well do so too:
Everything I accused evolution of has been supported by evidence that evolutionists have hid and denied over time so that Creation cannot arise and be the only theory of origins because so many Atheists don't want to have to admit that there is a God.
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Just more accusations. Who'd a thunk it? So you can't support them? Is that it? You can be honest about it. It's okay.
We can argue about evolution if you like, but first you really need support your opening salvo. That's how debates work. Or didn't you know that?
You can learn something here about debating, if nothing else... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Tipok
New Member
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 19:28:49 [Permalink]
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Just more accusations. Who'd a thunk it? So you can't support them? Is that it? You can be honest about it. It's okay.
We can argue about evolution if you like, but first you really need support your opening salvo. That's how debates work. Or didn't you know that?
You can learn something here about debating, if nothing else...
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I don't see how when I say that your questions have already been answered, I'm just someone without support for their accusations. Yet when you say that my questions have already been answered, you can just sit there without any support for their accusations about Creation. It's hypocracy I tell you. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 19:34:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Tipok
Just more accusations. Who'd a thunk it? So you can't support them? Is that it? You can be honest about it. It's okay.
We can argue about evolution if you like, but first you really need support your opening salvo. That's how debates work. Or didn't you know that?
You can learn something here about debating, if nothing else...
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I don't see how when I say that your questions have already been answered, I'm just someone without support for their accusations. Yet when you say that my questions have already been answered, you can just sit there without any support for their accusations about Creation. It's hypocracy I tell you.
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As I said, we can debate evolution and creation if you like. And I can support my assertion that all your questions have already been answered, because they have been. (I supplied a link in another thread to a load of transitional fossils. And with that, I have already gone much further than you have in supporting my assertion. Here it is again:
Transitional Vertebrate Fossils FAQ)
But that's not the point. You made some serious accusations, and you really need to support them. You have come in here and basically called evolution a big conspiracy and all of the scientists liars and cheats. That wasn't very nice. I think you should support such accusations, don't you? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Tipok
New Member
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 19:42:17 [Permalink]
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As I said, we can debate evolution and creation if you like. And I can support my assertion that all your questions have already been answered, because they have been. (I supplied a link in another thread to a load of transitional fossils. Here it is again:
Transitional Vertebrate Fossils FAQ) But that's not the point. You made some serious accusations, and you really need to support them. You have come in here and basically called evolution a big conspiracy and all of the scientists liars and cheats. That wasn't very nice. I think you should support such accusations, don't you?
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Oh, so evolutionists don't run around saying "Creation isn't science, it's religion" or "Creationists are just a bunch of ignorant buffoons without any evidence to support their claims" or "Creationists just make up a bunch of stuff so that they can make yet another failed attempt to bring down evolution." Again, hypocracy. Oh yes, and you still didn't provide any background support on how sexual reproduction and such came into existence through evolution, which was what I was really looking for. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 19:47:08 [Permalink]
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| Did I come to your site and say those things? No. You came to ours with a load of accusations. See, there is the difference. Rules of logic, Pal. You made the claims, you get to support them. And I would expect nothing less asked of me if I posted on a creationist site with a list of accusations about creationists. I would be prepared to support them, and wouldn't consider it unreasonable to be asked to do so. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Tipok
New Member
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 19:57:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Did I come to your site and say those things? No. You came to ours with a load of accusations. See, there is the difference. Rules of logic, Pal. You made the claims, you get to support them. And I would expect nothing less asked of me if I posted on a creationist site with a list of accusations about creationists. I would be prepared to support them, and wouldn't consider it unreasonable to be asked to do so.
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I would think that since Creation was overrun by Atheists with Evolution, really evolutionists should be the ones supporting their claims with true evidence instead of making up evidence. And if evolutionists actually accepted all of the evidence that Creationists provide against evolution, evolution would be drove into the ground. But since Evolution still stands, it is obvious that evolutionists are still too stubborn to admit the truth so there is no reason for me to say anything because you would just claim that what I say is false or illogical, which is what evolutionists do. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 20:12:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Tipok
Originally posted by Kil
Did I come to your site and say those things? No. You came to ours with a load of accusations. See, there is the difference. Rules of logic, Pal. You made the claims, you get to support them. And I would expect nothing less asked of me if I posted on a creationist site with a list of accusations about creationists. I would be prepared to support them, and wouldn't consider it unreasonable to be asked to do so.
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I would think that since Creation was overrun by Atheists with Evolution, really evolutionists should be the ones supporting their claims with true evidence instead of making up evidence. And if evolutionists actually accepted all of the evidence that Creationists provide against evolution, evolution would be drove into the ground. But since Evolution still stands, it is obvious that evolutionists are still too stubborn to admit the truth so there is no reason for me to say anything because you would just claim that what I say is false or illogical, which is what evolutionists do.
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So. I spell it out for you and you come back at me with more accusations? Are you kidding? Have you no integrity at all? I mean it. I don't really care if your a creationist. I do care about the rules of logic. I care about basic honesty, which you seem to lack.
Nuff said about that. If you can't bring yourself to support your claims, I can't help you, or what's going to happen when the natives arrive and get a load of you.
Good luck with that!!!
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Logical fallacies: this oughta be good!
