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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26021 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2009 :  15:00:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

Can others still get in on this?
You can either start a concurrent game, or wait until this one ends (shouldn't take too long). Now that Ricky and I are shooting, it wouldn't be fair to have someone with an unshot ship coming in.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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Why not question something for a change?
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2009 :  19:38:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why is it that crew G took damage? Do you get to choose? Also, how does the new system work with ship blowing up?

All important stats have remained the same, so I rolled a 17 and then a 51. I'll take 51, which is Dave's engines. 2TG means that they are indeed destroyed. The DI is now 59 - 2 - 7 = 50, and I rolled a 92 (I had previous wrote 17 in there, then I realized that the rolls read from bottom up, going first to last).

Cst Component     u Atts        Hitlc Dm Curr Atts
--- ------------- - ----------- ----- -- -----------
 25 Bridge        2 1AP/2TG     01-02 OO AP: O
 25 Crew A        2 1AP/2TG     03-04 OO AP: O
 10 Life Spprt A  2 1BP/2TG     05-06 OO BP: O
 15 Pea Shooter A 2 1PW/1AC/2TG 07-08 OO PW: O AC: O
 25 Crew B        2 1AP/2TG     09-10 OO AP: O
 10 Life Spprt B  2 1BP/2TG     11-12 OO BP: O
 15 Pea Shooter B 2 1PW/1AC/2TG 13-14 OO PW: O AC: O
 25 Crew C        2 1AP/2TG     15-16 OO AP: O
 10 Life Spprt C  2 1BP/2TG     17-18 OO BP: O
 15 Pea Shooter C 2 1PW/1AC/2TG 19-20 OO PW: O AC: O
 25 Crew D        2 1AP/2TG     21-22 OO AP: O
 10 Life Spprt D  2 1BP/2TG     23-24 OO BP: O
 15 Pea Shooter D 2 1PW/1AC/2TG 25-26 OO PW: O AC: O
 25 Crew E        2 1AP/2TG     27-28 OO AP: O
 10 Life Spprt E  2 1BP/2TG     29-30 OO BP: O
 15 Pea Shooter E 2 1PW/1AC/2TG 31-32 OO PW: O AC: O
 25 Crew F        2 1AP/2TG     33-34 OO AP: O
 10 Life Spprt F  2 1BP/2TG     35-36 OO BP: O
 15 Pea Shooter F 2 1PW/1AC/2TG 37-38 OO PW: O AC: O
 25 Crew G        2 1AP/2TG     39-40 OX AP: O
 10 Life Spprt G  2 1BP/2TG     41-42 OO BP: O
 15 Pea Shooter G 2 1PW/1AC/2TG 43-44 OO PW: O AC: O
 10 Life Spprt H  2 1BP/2TG     45-46 XX BP: X
 25 Engineering   2 1RP/2TG     47-48 OO RP: O
 65 Gyroboost     7 6MN/1TH/2TG 49-55 XX MN: XXXXXX TH: X
 20 Frame         4 2TG         56-59 OO

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 11/22/2009 19:45:54
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26021 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2009 :  20:16:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky

Why is it that crew G took damage? Do you get to choose?
Yeah, I get to choose which crew/bridge component gets damaged by sub-standard life support. Do you think it would be better if it were random? This time, Crew F takes a point of damage:

Cst Component     u Atts        Hitlc Dm Curr Atts
--- ------------- - ----------- ----- -- -----------
 25 Bridge        2 1AP/2TG     01-02 OO AP: O
 25 Crew A        2 1AP/2TG     03-04 OO AP: O
 10 Life Spprt A  2 1BP/2TG     05-06 OO BP: O
 15 Pea Shooter A 2 1PW/1AC/2TG 07-08 OO PW: O AC: O
 25 Crew B        2 1AP/2TG     09-10 OO AP: O
 10 Life Spprt B  2 1BP/2TG     11-12 OO BP: O
 15 Pea Shooter B 2 1PW/1AC/2TG 13-14 OO PW: O AC: O
 25 Crew C        2 1AP/2TG     15-16 OO AP: O
 10 Life Spprt C  2 1BP/2TG     17-18 OO BP: O
 15 Pea Shooter C 2 1PW/1AC/2TG 19-20 OO PW: O AC: O
 25 Crew D        2 1AP/2TG     21-22 OO AP: O
 10 Life Spprt D  2 1BP/2TG     23-24 OO BP: O
 15 Pea Shooter D 2 1PW/1AC/2TG 25-26 OO PW: O AC: O
 25 Crew E        2 1AP/2TG     27-28 OO AP: O
 10 Life Spprt E  2 1BP/2TG     29-30 OO BP: O
 15 Pea Shooter E 2 1PW/1AC/2TG 31-32 OO PW: O AC: O
 25 Crew F        2 1AP/2TG     33-34 OX AP: O
 10 Life Spprt F  2 1BP/2TG     35-36 OO BP: O
 15 Pea Shooter F 2 1PW/1AC/2TG 37-38 OO PW: O AC: O
 25 Crew G        2 1AP/2TG     39-40 OX AP: O
 10 Life Spprt G  2 1BP/2TG     41-42 OO BP: O
 15 Pea Shooter G 2 1PW/1AC/2TG 43-44 OO PW: O AC: O
 10 Life Spprt H  2 1BP/2TG     45-46 XX BP: X
 25 Engineering   2 1RP/2TG     47-48 OO RP: O
 65 Gyroboost     7 6MN/1TH/2TG 49-55 XX MN: XXXXXX TH: X
 20 Frame         4 2TG         56-59 OO
Also, how does the new system work with ship blowing up?
It works as described in this post.

Okay, with my engines gone, I start with a -5 AI, plus 1 for the accuracy of my weapons gives me a -4 AI (2 rolls, TAR picks) for seven attacks:

Pea Shooter A: I rolled 16 and 45, both of which would hit, so Ricky's shield loses its last PR.

Pea Shooter B: 91 and 71. I'm sure Ricky would prefer I miss, so he'd pick the 91, and I miss.

Pea Shooter C: 37 and 18. A choice between the engine and the weapon. Since none of Ricky's attack or damage scores would change with respect to my ship (any hit destroys a component so long as his weapon power is above 2), but his AI would be reduced if I damage his engine, I think he'd choose for my attack to damage his weapon, which also reduces its power to 12.

Pea Shooter D: 55 and 49. Shield or weapon, and since the shield is dead-weight (no engineering means no repairs), I think Ricky would pick it.

Pea Shooter E: 95 and 91, both misses.

Pea Shooter F: 3 and 5, a hit on the Bridge either way.

Pea Shooter G: 89 and 44, I have to pick the miss.

Again, I'll save an action. Here's your ship status, Ricky:

Cst Component     u  Atts         Hitlc Damage  Curr Atts
--- ------------- -- ------------ ----- ------- -----------
 50 Bridge         8 1AP/7TG      01-08 OOOOOOX AP: O
 35 Life           7 1BP/7TG      09-15 OOOOOOO BP: O
 80 Prop          11 5MN/1TH/7TG  16-26 OOOOOOO MN: OOOOO TH: O
125 Weap          25 13PW/6AC/7TG 27-51 OOOOOOX PW: OOOOOOOOOOOOX
                                                AC: OOOOOO
160 Shield        18 12PR/7TG     52-69 OOOOOOX PR: XXXXXXXXXXXX
 50 Frame         10 7TG          70-79 OOOOOOO
--- ------------- -- ------------ ----- ------- -----------

And it's your turn.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2009 :  22:39:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Your ship is dead in the water, so I get 5 from my MN and 6 from my weapons AC. This gives me +11 AI, which means I get to pick where to hit you unless I roll a 99. I rolled a 7, and so I pick your frame.

That's game over, right? (If it's not, I reserve the right to retake my turn )

Do you think it would be better if it were random?


At first I did, but on ships there is a way to divert life support to where you need it. So you choosing sounds about right (think closing off certain decks).

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 11/22/2009 22:41:23
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26021 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2009 :  23:07:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky

Your ship is dead in the water, so I get 5 from my MN and 6 from my weapons AC. This gives me +11 AI, which means I get to pick where to hit you unless I roll a 99. I rolled a 7, and so I pick your frame.

That's game over, right?
Yeah, that's game over. Which lead me to think that the frame is a dumb-ass idea (I was thinking this as I last posted). And/or that the "free pick" is a dumb-ass idea.

The reason I was changing the ship-destruction rule was to avoid abrupt ends to a battle after just a couple/few turns. If it hadn't been for the frame, I would have had seven or eight turns left after you hit my engine, with the "free pick" in play (possibly more without it). That would have offered some hope that I could, with good rolls, drag your AI down (and/or increase mine).

Had we been sitting face-to-face, the whole battle would have taken less than five minutes. That's no good when it takes longer than that to design the ships.

The frame has got to go. "Free pick" should probably go, too.

Would it be possible to get some sort of analysis of how multiple rolls and adjustments affect the odds of hits, Ricky? I've been wondering if my chart, which attempts to slowly build up the accuracy of attacks, actually works as intended. But my skills with probabilities haven't been up to the task, yet.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4955 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2009 :  23:58:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by Ricky

Your ship is dead in the water, so I get 5 from my MN and 6 from my weapons AC. This gives me +11 AI, which means I get to pick where to hit you unless I roll a 99. I rolled a 7, and so I pick your frame.

That's game over, right?
Yeah, that's game over. Which lead me to think that the frame is a dumb-ass idea (I was thinking this as I last posted). And/or that the "free pick" is a dumb-ass idea.

The reason I was changing the ship-destruction rule was to avoid abrupt ends to a battle after just a couple/few turns. If it hadn't been for the frame, I would have had seven or eight turns left after you hit my engine, with the "free pick" in play (possibly more without it). That would have offered some hope that I could, with good rolls, drag your AI down (and/or increase mine).

Had we been sitting face-to-face, the whole battle would have taken less than five minutes. That's no good when it takes longer than that to design the ships.

The frame has got to go. "Free pick" should probably go, too.

Would it be possible to get some sort of analysis of how multiple rolls and adjustments affect the odds of hits, Ricky? I've been wondering if my chart, which attempts to slowly build up the accuracy of attacks, actually works as intended. But my skills with probabilities haven't been up to the task, yet.
So if the game is over, when is the next one starting? That is, how long to I have to familiarize myself with rules, etc.? Is there a next start date?
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 11/23/2009 :  06:54:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So if the game is over, when is the next one starting?

It's going to take Dave a while to pick up the little itty-bitty pieces of what's left of his ship. So definitely not till after Thanksgiving weekend, and if we're looking into rule modifications probably a bit longer.

Would it be possible to get some sort of analysis of how multiple rolls and adjustments affect the odds of hits, Ricky?

I'll start trying some things.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 11/23/2009 06:54:52
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26021 Posts

Posted - 11/23/2009 :  07:53:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky

It's going to take Dave a while to pick up the little itty-bitty pieces of what's left of his ship.
On the plus side, 81% of the components were undamaged, and thus salvage-ready.
So definitely not till after Thanksgiving weekend, and if we're looking into rule modifications probably a bit longer.
Yeah, probably a two or three weeks.
I'll start trying some things.
Thanks.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2009 :  21:18:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Dave, do you still want some calculations on the probability of hitting in the different cases?

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26021 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2009 :  21:37:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nah. I think we covered it in chat the other night, Ricky.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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