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cantbe323
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242 Posts |
 Posted - 01/19/2010 : 17:22:23
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Scientists say they know how the mind works, but they can't see the mind at work. So all they can do is make pseudoscience guesses that may or mmay not be correct.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 17:42:37 [Permalink]
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Actually, a great deal is known about how the mind works.
Table of Contents for the article in the link:
CONTENTS
THE BRAIN
How the Human Brain Evolved
Reptilian Brain
Mammalian Brain
Human Brain
Brain Waves
Brain Scanning
SLEEP AND SLEEPING
Body-Temperature and Sleep Rhythms
Sleeping
Deep Sleep and REM Sleep
Role of DEEP Sleep
Role of REM Sleep
DREAMING AND DREAMS
Content of Dreams
Role of Dreams
LEARNING, MEMORISING AND REMEMBERING (Receiving, Storing and Recalling)
Types of Memory
Procedural Memory
Declarative Memory
Associating Memories and their Components
Working Memory
External Memory
Stored Information (Perceived Content)
Learning (Memorising) and Understanding
Development of Brain Functions in Humans
Development of Brain Functioning in Foetus and Newborn
Role of REM Sleep in Infants
Changes in Sleep-wakefulness Rhythm during First Year of Infant's Life
Learning by Playing and by Experience
Change from Eidetic to Linear Memory
CONCLUSIONS - BRAIN, MIND AND BEHAVIOUR (Human Behaviour and how the Mind works)
Instincts and Instinctive Behaviour
Conscious Behaviour: Learning and Evaluating, Memory and Memorising
Communicating Non-verbally: Conveying Information by Using Images
Instinctive Behaviour
Subconscious Behaviour (Functioning)
Memorising
Adapting to the Environment: Changing Instinctive Behaviour
Adapting to the World in which we Live: Changing Behaviour Patterns
Evaluation and Understanding
The Struggle for a Better Life
Main Conclusions
NOTES AND REFERENCES
Notes <..>
References {..}
ILLUSTRATIONS (Click any illustration to see the full-size chart)
1. Sleep Pattern: Day-Night-Day
2. One Sleep Period (One Night)
3. The Human Brain
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It's a long one, as the human brain is quite complicated. Welcome to SFN, cantbe323
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 18:15:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by cantbe323
Scientists say they know how the mind works... |
Name a scientist who says that.| ...but they can't see the mind at work. |
That's true, but we also can't see electrons at work, yet the computer you used to post this message works okay, doesn't it?| So all they can do is make pseudoscience guesses that may or mmay not be correct. |
One of the main differences between science and pseudoscience is that scientists test their guesses to see if they are correct or not. Pseudoscientists don't. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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cantbe323
Suspended
242 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 18:30:34 [Permalink]
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It's really based on cause/effect. All scientists know about the head for sure is the effect, very little about the hidden causes... And since they can't see inside the head to watch the mind at work, all they can do is make educated guesses about how it works, and not being system engineers, they're probably wrong.
Your list is impressive and extensive, but I just don't trust pseudoscientists to do anything right. I have my own theory, but no way to prove it
cantbe323 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 18:45:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by cantbe323
It's really based on cause/effect. All scientists know about the head for sure is the effect... |
Again, that is true about every science which deals with that which cannot be directly observed by our five senses. So is atomic theory pseudoscience in your view? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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cantbe323
Suspended
242 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 19:25:09 [Permalink]
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We can only see the effect of computers, not the cause.
Engineers test their guesses, scientists don't know how.
We can only see, feel and hear the effect of nuclear fission, not the cause. For all we know, physicists came upon the cause by chance and made educated guesses.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 19:42:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by cantbe323
We can only see, feel and hear the effect of nuclear fission, not the cause. For all we know, physicists came upon the cause by chance and made educated guesses. |
What are you getting at with this? We know the cause of nuclear fission. It certainly wasn't "by chance"; atomic theory had made successful predictions for decades before anyone detonated a hydrogen bomb.
And your phrasing doesn't ultimately make any sense. You seem to be saying in general that no one knows why anything works and yet at some point with enough tests have been made and bombs built, I think it's safe to say that people do know why something works and aren't making guesses. No? |
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cantbe323
Suspended
242 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 20:35:49 [Permalink]
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We know the cause of nuclear fission. It certainly wasn't "by chance"; atomic theory had made successful predictions for decades before anyone detonated a hydrogen bomb. >>
How can you be so sure? You probably weren't even born when they were making all those initial tests and experiments. All a cyclotron does visibly is propel things that can't be seen with the strongest magnifying glass, so all you can really see is the effect.
cantbe323 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 20:47:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by cantbe323
How can you be so sure? You probably weren't even born when they were making all those initial tests and experiments. |
For real? So I should instead posit a grand conspiracy theory wherein thousands of scientists are fabricating data about the history of the study of the atom-- a plan that has duped countless millions since? Everyone, of course, except you? Is that really your argument?
| All a cyclotron does visibly is propel things that can't be seen with the strongest magnifying glass, so all you can really see is the effect. |
Yes, and again, here is where your argument breaks down. Again, after repeated successful tries, and when said tries conform to our basic understandings of nuclear physics, then it's safe to say that we are starting to know the why. This isn't a one-time event. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 20:51:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by cantbe323
Scientists say they know how the mind works, but they can't see the mind at work. So all they can do is make pseudoscience guesses that may or mmay not be correct.
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Take a look at how scientists use modern imaging equipment before you say that. Because they are now "seeing" how the brain operates, and are using what they see and learn in a very practical way. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 22:13:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by cantbe323
We can only see the effect of computers, not the cause. |
That was my point.| Engineers test their guesses, scientists don't know how. |
Aha. I've seen the engineer-who-is-jealous-that-he-is-not-a-scientist before, but mostly among the Intelligent Design crowd.| We can only see, feel and hear the effect of nuclear fission, not the cause. For all we know, physicists came upon the cause by chance and made educated guesses. |
And because we weren't there at the birth of nuclear physics, we can't know. This sort of Last-Thursdayism is common among the aforementioned crew, also.
Really, is there a point to all this? Cheerleading for engineers and poo-poohing scientists isn't a point. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 01/20/2010 : 05:19:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by cantbe323
It's really based on cause/effect. All scientists know about the head for sure is the effect, very little about the hidden causes... And since they can't see inside the head to watch the mind at work, all they can do is make educated guesses about how it works, and not being system engineers, they're probably wrong.
Your list is impressive and extensive, but I just don't trust pseudoscientists to do anything right. I have my own theory, but no way to prove it
cantbe323
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Define "psuedoscientist."
Had you but opened the link and studied it a bit, you might have come to an understanding. Or perhaps even had your theory collaborated.
How can you be so sure? You probably weren't even born when they were making all those initial tests and experiments. All a cyclotron does visibly is propel things that can't be seen with the strongest magnifying glass, so all you can really see is the effect.
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Actually, I and a few other old farts in here were. I remember quite well watching b&w newsreels of atomic testing in the '40s.
If you think of scientific equipment as a sort of prosthetics, you will find it easy to see how scientists "see" even where nothing can be seen. I can't believe I wrote that! 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1486 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2010 : 16:01:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by cantbe323
Scientists say ... |
Oh gag, strawman fallacy alert. 
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cantbe323
Suspended
242 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2010 : 15:55:21 [Permalink]
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You seem to be saying in general that no one knows why anything works and yet at some point with enough tests have been made and bombs built, I think it's safe to say that people do know why something works and aren't making guesses. No? >>
Bombs are definitely effect, and since they are tested, not just words, cause is well documented.
cantbe323
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cantbe323
Suspended
242 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2010 : 16:30:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
[quote]I have my own theory, but no way to prove it. |
I'll bite: What is this "theory"? >>
Here's the short version...
There is no analytical brain, only muscle memory and experience mmemory weighted by what worked and what didn't work.
cantbe323
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pseudoscience
