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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2010 :  12:44:29  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All the right wing media is now acting like it's been utterly disproven, but I can't find any specific reasoning behind that.

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2010 :  13:21:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, let's see: For decades, the evidence for AGW piled up, it was debated wildly among scientists as it accumulated, eventually the evidence became overwhelming and the scientific conclusion supporting AGW hypothesis became the consensus.

So the right-wing media simply stopped arguing the science and declared AGW disproved.

No, you missed nothing.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2010 :  14:42:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I bet you missed Himalayagate.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2010 :  14:51:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A few days ago, this story ran in USA Today but with a headline that would have made and anti-GW person jump up an down. I forget the exact wording, but it was something like "global warming not caused by greenhouse gas" or the like.
Edited by - Cuneiformist on 01/30/2010 14:51:48
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dglas
Skeptic Friend

Canada
397 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2010 :  15:12:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send dglas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here's the argument:

I make my living abusing natural resources at will. Taking any steps to correct these effects and abuses may cost me money. Therefore all this global warming stuff is clearly wrong.

The right wing media is really not hard to understand. You just have to role-play their priorities - as irredeemably distasteful as that experience is. :D

--------------------------------------------------
- dglas (In the hell of 1000 unresolved subplots...)
--------------------------------------------------
The Presupposition of Intrinsic Evil
+ A Self-Justificatory Framework
= The "Heart of Darkness"
--------------------------------------------------
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2010 :  15:42:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks to Dave for the actual answer and thanks to everyone else for the hilarious answers.

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2010 :  16:14:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, my answer was hilarious, too, in that it's such a tiny little thing that has the denialist crowd shouting "fraud!" from the rooftops (and committing fraud, too).

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2010 :  20:41:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Himalayagate, by the way, has a sequel in Rosegate (see also here, here, here and here). Basically, reporter David Rose is claiming that scientists have been saying conspiratorial things about AGW politics, and when those scientists objected (saying Rose was making those things up), Rose said that they were lying.

And then, for more egg on the denialists' faces, we have Amazongate, a complete manufactroversy in which the reporters claim that a source cited in the IPCC papers doesn't say what the IPCC says it says, but it really does.

(Interestingly, Satoshi Kanazawa says that British newspaper reporters think that "freedom of the press" means "freedom to make stuff up.")

Over on this side of the pond, we have surfacestations.org-gate, in which denialists are trying very hard to ignore an analysis which shows that poorly situated temperature stations (those next to heat sources) actually show a cooling bias, instead of the heating bias the denialists think they should show. If there were a heating bias, the denialists could point to it as evidence that what looks like AGW is actually the result of thermometers being too close to parking lots or the heat exchangers of air conditioners. Unfortunately for Andrew Watts and his small army of volunteers, uncorrected temps from those sensors are cooler than they should be. But they just keep on posting pictures of badly sited stations and laughing at the scientists.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2010 :  21:18:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

Thanks to Dave for the actual answer and thanks to everyone else for the hilarious answers.
Well here's a giant F-you to you, Christ-lover. I was honestly trying to give an answer based on stuff I'd read in the paper. If you thought it was "hilarious" go fuck yourself with a crucifix.
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2010 :  21:20:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
oh, I missed yours, apologies.

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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2010 :  06:30:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jeez Cune, forget the meds this morning?

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2010 :  08:13:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One lesson to bear in mind, OFFC, is that any widely-studied scientific subject is going to have the occasional errors included in its study. Data collected may be wrong, that data may be misinterpreted, the math may be wrong, the conclusions or the relative importance of the particular data may be misstated.

AGW is a relatively young field that has thousands upon thousands of people and instruments collecting, sorting, and interpreting data from millions of locations, trying to collate and understand that data in a global way that has never been done before. Here and there is this vast mountain of data and conclusions, there are bound to be examples of every kind of error (and even fraud) imaginable. But the power of science lies in the data and conclusions being published and reviewed, and corrected.

Probably something vaguely like 95%+ of AGW climatology is solid, so the AGW hypothesis beginning to approach the status of a strong scientific theory. Compare this to the Theory of Evolution, another multidisciplinary field, but which has been studied longer and more thoroughly. The ToE is so well-tested a theory that evolution is accepted within science as a simple fact. AGW isn't quite there yet, but it's closing in.

Besides the difference in the certainty of the science between AGW and ToE, A big difference between them is that if the ToE is not acted upon as a fact, it would hurt us intellectually, scientifically, and medically. If AGW is not acted upon as a fact and successfully mitigated, millions or even billions may die by starvation, drowning, unimaginable chaos, forced migration and warfare. If AGW turns out to be hogwash (which seems increasingly unlikely) almost all the damage done will be that we more rapidly develop cleaner power sources and alternatives for rapidly disappearing limited resources.

Imagine AGW-acceptance as a sort of scientific Pascal's Wager. Only in this case imagine that Pascal had not only presented his Wager, but also had given (he didn't) overwhelming physical evidence for the existence of his God. The smart -- and the cautious -- money would have been on Pascal's bet.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/01/2010 08:19:57
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2010 :  14:20:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

All the right wing media is now acting like it's been utterly disproven, but I can't find any specific reasoning behind that.



It was probably this poll showing Americans are about as concerned with global warming as they are with, well, nothing.

You got climate gate, you got the Himalayan glacier gate, you got the Rain Forest gate etc...

You got blizzards closing down Copenhagen during the summit, you got folks in Texas buying snow blowers etc...

You got Al Gore's fat XXX floating down the Tennessee river in his private house boat "Carbon One" with a 500 gallon fuel tank on board pulling jet skies behind it...

The jig is up on this hoax. Cap and Trade is dead. The American people have seen enough of the global warming crowd and have placed them in their proper order, at the back of the line.


A Pew Research Center poll released today shows that few Americans consider global warming to be a top priority, so few that global warming came in dead last among 21 issues.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2010/01/26/lawrence-solomon-global-warming-dead-last-in-poll.aspx



Shoot more people were concerned with the break down of morals then this man made global warming climate change garbage.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

Edited by - Bill scott on 02/01/2010 14:24:46
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2010 :  16:05:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Bill scott

The jig is up on this hoax. Cap and Trade is dead. The American people have seen enough of the global warming crowd and have placed them in their proper order, at the back of the line.
Because that, of course, is how proper science is done: to take a poll of how Americans feel about things. If enough Americans think something is unimportant, then it should be considered a global hoax.

And of course, you can't help but suggest that local, short-term weather events are somehow indicators of global climate. I wish I could say that it's unbelievable that you continue to post such nonsense, but really, your failitude knows no bounds.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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tomk80
SFN Regular

Netherlands
1278 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2010 :  17:09:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit tomk80's Homepage Send tomk80 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Bill scott
It was probably this poll showing Americans are about as concerned with global warming as they are with, well, nothing.

Showing once again that the right wing media is completely incapable of understanding argumentation. The popularity of a position with the general public is not an argument on the truth or falsity of it.

You got climate gate, you got the Himalayan glacier gate, you got the Rain Forest gate etc...

The one even more insignificant than the other from a scientific standpoint. None of those "gates" have any effect on the scientific consensus on climate change, nor should they.

You got blizzards closing down Copenhagen during the summit, you got folks in Texas buying snow blowers etc...

Yet 2009 was one of the warmest years on record. Showing once again that hard mathematical terms like "average" or "variance" are apparently very hard to understand for people like you.

You got Al Gore's fat XXX floating down the Tennessee river in his private house boat "Carbon One" with a 500 gallon fuel tank on board pulling jet skies behind it...

Again completely irrelevant to the scientific evidence in favor of anthropogenic climate change.

The jig is up on this hoax. Cap and Trade is dead. The American people have seen enough of the global warming crowd and have placed them in their proper order, at the back of the line.

[quote]A Pew Research Center poll released today shows that few Americans consider global warming to be a top priority, so few that global warming came in dead last among 21 issues.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2010/01/26/lawrence-solomon-global-warming-dead-last-in-poll.aspx

Shoot more people were concerned with the break down of morals then this man made global warming climate change garbage.


Because of course, when the American people believe that the earth is flat, the earth is fucking flat, damnit!

But yes, it is problematic that the American public is apparently as clueless about climate change as it is on a whole sloth of other scientific issues.

What I do find interesting on the polls is that especially older Americans reject the scientific consensus, while younger Americans are more likely to accept it. Furthermore, the views of these younger Americans apparently have not changed, with 30% of this population thinking the media portrayal of the issue is overstated. Not surprising, since they'll have to deal with the problems the old fucks left behind. It also gives some hope for the future that the younger generation (<30) may be better scientifically informed.

Tom

`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll-
Edited by - tomk80 on 02/01/2010 17:11:25
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2010 :  17:44:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bill, all we got to do is wait. But while we're waiting, don't you think that it'd be a good idea to clean up our act and make the world a more livable place?

And while we're waiting, check out the situation in Oz, Greenland and Antarctica.

Oh, and whilst we're about it, let us not forget good ol' Thermohaline Circulation. That's the really neat-o part.

Y'know Bill, what you've been doing is listening to people who don't know any more about it than than Joe Blow out on the street, and that ain't all that much. Always listen to the ones who know more than you and don't let some dumb ideology influence your thinking, and you'll seldom go wrong.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 02/01/2010 17:48:36
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