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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 02/03/2010 : 08:40:46 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| Ah. I either misunderstood or misheard an NPR report on this a year ago or so (or my memory is shot, or NPR got it wrong, or all four). And a RealClimate report from 2006 questions whether vineyards can be a temperature proxy... |
And yet more hyperbole from the alarmists. This time it is the grapes of England that are evidence for MMGMCC. You guys have a monoply for this discussion. Extream heat is evedence for MMGWCC, extream cold is evidence for MMGWCC, grapes in England are evidence for MMGWCC and in 10-30 years the USA will be buying it's corn from Iceland and Antarctica. (Yeah right) |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2010 : 08:43:08 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
Actually, the poll found that only 28% of people found "dealing with global warming" to be a "top priority."
Bill chose to compare this to the "dealing with moral breakdown" question. But we can also compare that question with the "protecting the environment" question (which, really, goes hand-in-hand with "dealing with global warming"), |
Says who? You are just assuming that anybody who dismisses man made global warming climate change is against protecting the environment and that those who want to protect the environment, by default, regurgitate the man made global warming climate change agenda verbatim. Here is a newsflash Dick Tracey, many who dismiss m.m.g.w.c.c. value protecting the environment and versa visa. And most put MMGWCC at the end of the line for their current concerns. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2010 : 09:12:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
And yet more hyperbole from the alarmists. This time it is the grapes of England that are evidence for MMGMCC. You guys have a monoply for this discussion. Extream heat is evedence for MMGWCC, extream cold is evidence for MMGWCC, grapes in England are evidence for MMGWCC and in 10-30 years the USA will be buying it's corn from Iceland and Antarctica. (Yeah right)
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??? Dave got something wrong, I pointed this out and he conceded. How is this hyperbole?
However, if global climate is changing we should see changes in nature that reflect this. The nature article I pointed to discusses these changes. An error by a single person on a message board is not hyperbole. Pointing to that (conceded, for God's sake) error as hyperbole is hyperbole however. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2010 : 09:20:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Says who? You are just assuming that anybody who dismisses man made global warming climate change is against protecting the environment and that those who want to protect the environment, by default, regurgitate the man made global warming climate change agenda verbatim. Here is a newsflash Dick Tracey, many who dismiss m.m.g.w.c.c. value protecting the environment and versa visa. And most put MMGWCC at the end of the line for their current concerns. |
I see no evidence whatsoever that the question as asked had the words "man made" or "anthropogenic" in it at all. The question seems to have been along the lines of "Should dealing with global warming be our top priority?"
Are you back to doubting that the warming itself is occurring, Bill?
Whether you are or not, your position is still very much disgusting. And since you refuse to support it with anything approaching debatable evidence, yes, all I've got is personal attacks for you. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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podcat
Skeptic Friend
435 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2010 : 23:47:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Actually, the poll found that only 28% of people found "dealing with global warming" to be a "top priority."
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If you look at the poll:
http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/584.pdf
Page 11 lists the results in a summary table by respondents who said the particular issue was:
"Top priority"
"Important but lower priority"
"Not too important"
"Should not be done"
"Don't Know/Refused to Answer the Question"
In item "w. Dealing with global warming":
28% said it was "Top priority"
36% said it was "Important but lower priority"
20% said it was "Not too important"
14% said it "Should not be done"
2% "Don't Know/Refused to Answer"
So if we take the percentage of people surveyed on this issue who said it was at least "Important but lower priority", we get 28% + 36% = 64%. Nearly two-thirds of the people surveyed. |
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F-X
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2010 : 23:50:43 [Permalink]
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| Personal attacks are the sign of a small mind. |
I think I understand this "posting" thing |
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podcat
Skeptic Friend
435 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 00:04:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Here is a newsflash Dick Tracey, many who dismiss m.m.g.w.c.c. value protecting the environment and versa visa. |
Where's your proof? Quite a few people are very well paid to dismiss climate change. Not sure they care about protecting the environment, either. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 02/04/2010 : 06:18:26 [Permalink]
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On a related matter:
US 'climategate' scientist all but cleared of misconduct
18:41 03 February 2010 by Catherine Brahic
For similar stories, visit the Climate Change Topic Guide
A prominent US climate scientist at the centre of the "climategate" leaked email controversy has been virtually cleared of professional misconduct by an internal university inquiry.
Michael Mann of Penn State University featured regularly in the more than 1000 emails that were hacked from the University of East Anglia (UEA) in the UK last November. His emails and comments have since then featured in countless blogs and news articles. Some have claimed the emails reveal that mainstream climate scientists have massaged data in order to demonstrate that climate change is caused by human activities.
The scientists in the emails, including Mann, have also been accused of seeking to prevent the publication of sceptical research in academic journals.
Penn State University opened an inquiry into Mann's behaviour in November, shortly after the emails were leaked into the public domain. After sifting through 1075 emails and focusing on 47 that were deemed relevant to public allegations of misconduct by Mann, the inquiry has, by and large, cleared his name.
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Somebody needs to land in the poogie for this, and it ain't the scientists.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 06:33:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
On a related matter:
US 'climategate' scientist all but cleared of misconduct
18:41 03 February 2010 by Catherine Brahic
For similar stories, visit the Climate Change Topic Guide
A prominent US climate scientist at the centre of the "climategate" leaked email controversy has been virtually cleared of professional misconduct by an internal university inquiry.
Michael Mann of Penn State University featured regularly in the more than 1000 emails that were hacked from the University of East Anglia (UEA) in the UK last November. His emails and comments have since then featured in countless blogs and news articles. Some have claimed the emails reveal that mainstream climate scientists have massaged data in order to demonstrate that climate change is caused by human activities.
The scientists in the emails, including Mann, have also been accused of seeking to prevent the publication of sceptical research in academic journals.
Penn State University opened an inquiry into Mann's behaviour in November, shortly after the emails were leaked into the public domain. After sifting through 1075 emails and focusing on 47 that were deemed relevant to public allegations of misconduct by Mann, the inquiry has, by and large, cleared his name.
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Somebody needs to land in the poogie for this, and it ain't the scientists.
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Oh that's all part of the Conspiracy with the Librul College Elite Atheist Scientists trying to force their Socialist Communist Fascist worldview on Real Americans who know it is their Jesus-God given Right to conquer the world and use all its resources in any way they see fit because Jesus is Coming soon to take them away from all this. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 02/04/2010 : 06:59:11 [Permalink]
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| Oh that's all part of the Conspiracy with the Librul College Elite Atheist Scientists trying to force their Socialist Communist Fascist worldview on Real Americans who know it is their Jesus-God given Right to conquer the world and use all its resources in any way they see fit because Jesus is Coming soon to take them away from all this. |
Well, I wish the Sacred Smeghead would get up off his Shiftless, Triune Ass' and get with the Program. Then maybe the rest of us can clean up this mess with no further interference from Imbecilic Buffoonery.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 07:38:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by podcat
So if we take the percentage of people surveyed on this issue who said it was at least "Important but lower priority", we get 28% + 36% = 64%. Nearly two-thirds of the people surveyed. |
Ah, okay. Shifting the question from "top priority" to "important" will, of course, shift the numbers:
Top Priority | Important
--------------+--------------
83% Economy | 97% Economy
81% Jobs | 97% Terrorism
80% Terrorism | 96% Jobs
66% Soc. Sec. | 94% Soc. Sec.
65% Education | 93% Education
63% Medicare | 93% Medicare
60% Deficit | 91% Poor
57% Health | 89% Deficit
53% Poor | 88% Health
49% Military | 88% Energy
49% Energy | 88% Crime
49% Insurance | 86% Environ.
49% Crime | 84% Military
45% Morality | 83% Insurance
45% Finance | 82% Tax Cuts
44% Environ. | 81% Finance
42% Tax Cuts | 81% Immigr.
40% Immigr. | 78% Trade
36% Lobbyists | 76% Morality
32% Trade | 70% Lobbyists
28% Warming | 64% Warming |
34% of respondents said that global warming wasn't "too important" or that it should be ignored, policy-wise. The next least-important item, dealing with lobbyists in Washington, was only judged to be less important by 25% of respondents:
Not Important
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2% Economy
2% Jobs
2% Terrorism
5% Soc. Sec.
5% Medicare
6% Education
7% Deficit
8% Poor
9% Health
9% Energy
10% Crime
13% Environ.
14% Insurance
14% Tax Cuts
15% Military
15% Finance
16% Immigr.
16% Trade
20% Morality
25% Lobbyists
34% Warming |
The only set of respondents for which global warming doesn't come out dead last is the "Don't Know or Refused to Answer" set, and even then there were only eight questions with larger percentages (five questions tied for first place, so global warming is tied with seven other questions for sixth place).
So almost no matter how you slice the numbers, the respondents' attitude toward global warming sucks. And they neatly avoided the anthropogenicy issue, even! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 09:06:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by F-X
Personal attacks are the sign of a small mind.
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Oh, the irony!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 09:21:44 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| So almost no matter how you slice the numbers, the respondents' attitude toward global warming sucks. |
That was my original point back on page 1. In reply to this:
| All the right wing media is now acting like it's been utterly disproven, but I can't find any specific reasoning behind that. |
I said:
| It was probably this poll showing Americans are about as concerned with global warming as they are with, well, nothing. |
And this set off a firestorm among the MMGWCC alarmists, who recommended that I buy farmland in Norway, amongst some other oddities. The only point I was driving on this thread, and maybe I did not make myself clear enough, was that according to this latest Pew poll of the American people the MMGWCC issue was all but dead in the public arena. And this meant that it was all but dead politically, or at the least it was going to make the cap and trade bill that much more difficult to push through. It would be a tough sell for those up for reelection to go back home to the folks and explain why they just put more taxes on their current energy sources, in spite of the country being in a severe recession, over an issue the folks care nothing about, all while most folk's own budgets are running on lean as it is. You want talk about a revolt looking for a place to happen if they ram that bill through. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 02/04/2010 09:33:32 |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 09:48:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| So almost no matter how you slice the numbers, the respondents' attitude toward global warming sucks. |
That was my original point back on page 1. In reply to this:
| All the right wing media is now acting like it's been utterly disproven, but I can't find any specific reasoning behind that. |
I said:
| It was probably this poll showing Americans are about as concerned with global warming as they are with, well, nothing. |
And this set off a firestorm among the MMGWCC alarmists, who recommended that I buy farmland in Norway, amongst some other oddities. The only point I was driving on this thread, and maybe I did not make myself clear enough, was that according to this latest Pew poll of the American people the MMGWCC issue was all but dead in the public arena. And this meant that it was all but dead politically, or at the least it was going to make the cap and trade bill that much more difficult to push through. It would be a tough sell for those up for reelection to go back home to the folks and explain why they just put more taxes on their current energy sources, in spite of the country being in a severe recession, over an issue the folks care nothing about, all while most folk's own budgets are running on lean as it is. You want talk about a revolt looking for a place to happen if they ram that bill through.
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It's last on the list. However, "Global warming" is still an issue on which 64% of Americans think it is important to take action, according to the poll you linked to. That doesn't seem dead politically to me.
You keep repeating that it is an issue that Americans care nothing about, but that is not what your poll shows.
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Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2010 : 10:01:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tomk80
Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| So almost no matter how you slice the numbers, the respondents' attitude toward global warming sucks. |
That was my original point back on page 1. In reply to this:
| All the right wing media is now acting like it's been utterly disproven, but I can't find any specific reasoning behind that. |
I said:
| It was probably this poll showing Americans are about as concerned with global warming as they are with, well, nothing. |
And this set off a firestorm among the MMGWCC alarmists, who recommended that I buy farmland in Norway, amongst some other oddities. The only point I was driving on this thread, and maybe I did not make myself clear enough, was that according to this latest Pew poll of the American people the MMGWCC issue was all but dead in the public arena. And this meant that it was all but dead politically, or at the least it was going to make the cap and trade bill that much more difficult to push through. It would be a tough sell for those up for reelection to go back home to the folks and explain why they just put more taxes on their current energy sources, in spite of the country being in a severe recession, over an issue the folks care nothing about, all while most folk's own budgets are running on lean as it is. You want talk about a revolt looking for a place to happen if they ram that bill through.
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It's last on the list. However, "Global warming" is still an issue on which 64% of Americans think it is important to take action, according to the poll you linked to. That doesn't seem dead politically to me.
You keep repeating that it is an issue that Americans care nothing about, but that is not what your poll shows.
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The poll shows the American people care LITTLE over MMGWACC. There, are you happy? And the polls also show they sure as heck don't won't this cap and trade garbage. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Did I miss something about climate change?
