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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 02/12/2010 : 02:28:29
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This Sunday's New York Times Magazine will feature what promises to bean interesting article titled How Christian Were the Founders?
I haven't read it yet and it may be uninteresting. But I will get to it later tomorrow or this weekend and discuss the article further. In the while, feel free yourselves to have a look and, in general, debate the topic...
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Edited by - Cuneiformist on 02/12/2010 06:53:27
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2010 : 02:54:29 [Permalink]
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There is a lot of effort to rewrite history going on out there.
Insane retard Glen Beck has recruited some guy who specializes in revisionist history (and making shit up) to help him with his new book...
I am suffering from some serious apathy. These people still make me angry, but I am starting to think we should just let them go about their revisionism. In 30 years when the Theocratic States of America rises up and banishes history, science, all non-fundamentalist christian religions, and all the rest... we should just have made plans to buy a bunch of acres in the Canadian tundra. Or maybe New Zealand...
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2010 : 03:37:45 [Permalink]
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Good read. Thanks!
The TX BoE never fails to amaze and disgust.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2010 : 16:07:45 [Permalink]
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The original English colonists in America were religious minorities fleeing persecution from the legally established Church of England. All they wanted was to set themselves up in a place where they would be the majority and turn the tables.
But there were many such colonial groups, as shipload here, a shipload there. Isolated thousands of sea miles from their mother civilization, in a climate more severe than England, and surrounded by increasingly suspicious natives, these disparate colonies needed one another. The only way they could get along with one another well enough to survive in this hostile land was to to institute the religious neutrality of secularism. That's why the Constitution guarantees religious freedom, and mentions neither Jesus or God at all. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2010 : 16:24:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
That's why the Constitution... mentions neither Jesus or God at all. |
Except for the date.
OMFG! The United States is based on a Christian calendar!!1!!one! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2010 : 18:10:50 [Permalink]
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Peruse the pages at Positive Atheism's Big List of Quotations. All sorts of quotes there from many of the 'founding fathers', and you'll see that they were anything but the sort that Beck, O'Lielly, Coulter, et al, would like them to be.
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Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2010 : 22:00:11 [Permalink]
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I got about half-way through the piece when I was reminded of why none of this matters: these guys lived in the 18th century. Why on earth should be be wedded to whatever they thought willy-nilly? While we can't paint the whole crowd with a single brush, it's safe to say that overwhelmingly, their attitudes towards women, non-Europeans (and really only people from certain parts of Europe), the poor, etc., are currently rejected. Similarly, why should be care what George Washington or Thomas Jefferson thought about medicine, or physics, or chemistry. To say that because X, Y, and Z thought this should be a Christian Nation-- and so it must be a Christian Nation (whatever that means)-- is absurd. So what if so-and-so was a Biblical literalist? It's 2010. We've moved beyond that.
In my opinion, the non-theocrats are losing the battle when they engage in a "no, so-and-so wasn't a Christian" debate. Because there's always enough quote-mining and general 18th century Christian culture to raise doubts to the lay person in this debate. The better argument is the "so what" argument. Great. Charles Pinckney was a Christian. He was also big into slave-owning. Should we really care what he thought? |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 02/12/2010 22:00:44 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 02/13/2010 : 00:27:50 [Permalink]
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Well, Cune, the people who are trying to get "this is a Christian nation" into the schools are actually trying to turn back the clock on a whole host of issues, including science, civil rights, etc. Theocracy is their ultimate goal.
As the article says, this particular thing is nothing but a "wedge" issue, and once it gets started it becomes harder to stop. Couple the "Christian nation" crap with the old "slaves were happier being slaves than freemen" canard, and they've doubly justified a return to slavery. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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How Christian were the Founders
