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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 03/05/2010 : 11:49:14 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by HalfMooner |
| he starts with a conclusion, then thrashes about grabbing quotes and slender slivers of "evidence" to support that conclusion. |
Much like you when you accuse someone of racism.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 12:00:12 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| Actually, the theory is sound, which is why Shakhova can say it's too early. If the theory were questionable, then you should have complained that Shakhova's statements are no better than coin flipping. |
I never said the theory was not sound. I simply noted how the lead researcher concluded that it is too soon to know if this theory will lead us to any danger in a methane release, but yet that did not stop any of the alarmist from running wild on this forum as by the 3rd or 4th post we already had those who were waiting for jets of fire to burst forth from the ocean. I then explained that this is how the brush fires get started amongst the alarmist community. It does not matter if the lead researcher says it is too soon to come to any conclusion when your mind is already made up |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 12:15:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
I never said the theory was not sound. |
Then why did you bring up the fact that people who question the theory get labeled as denialists? If the theory is sound, then the only reason to question it is political, which all denialists are.No, you did more than that, and you know it.| ...as by the 3rd or 4th post we already had those who were waiting for jets of fire to burst forth from the ocean. |
Actually, it was the very first reply. Compare it to your Rapture-Ready brothers, and BigPapaSmurf's desire to see a disaster, even if it weren't tongue-in-cheek, looks downright pedestrian.
Of course, even if "a dangerous release of methane looms" and within a decade all of the climate models have to be revised sharply towards the "global disaster" end of the scale, it's unlikely that anyone is going to see jets of fire coming out of the ocean. So BPS's "alarm" is cartoony, and the only person trying to convince people that it's serious is you, Bill.
So how does it feel to be fanning the brushfire? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 12:15:47 [Permalink]
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Here's a little more from Wiki for Bill to read (or more likely, ignore, as is his habit). Arctic Methane Release:| According to monitoring carried out in 2003/2004 by Shakhova et al., the surface layer of shelf water in the East-Siberian Sea and Laptev Sea was supersaturated up to 2500% relative to then present average atmospheric methane content of 1.85 ppm. Anomalously high concentrations (up to 154 nM or 4400% supersaturation) of dissolved methane in the bottom layer of shelf water suggest that the bottom layer is somehow affected by near-bottom sources. Considering the possible formation mechanisms of such plumes, their studies indicated thermoabrasion and the effects of shallow gas or gas hydrates release. |
Note that this was a study by the very same Shakhova (et al) whose caution Bill has leaped upon in quote-mining glee. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 12:16:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by HalfMooner |
| he starts with a conclusion, then thrashes about grabbing quotes and slender slivers of "evidence" to support that conclusion. |
Much like you when you accuse someone of racism.
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Bite me. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 12:17:12 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by HalfMooner |
| We're talking about "warming" on a scale that may compare to cataclysmic extinction events like the Permian-Triassic extinction event, or the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum. |
What caused the warming back then that, as you point out, was even more cataclysmic then the warming we are seeing today? According to your statment above the Permian-Triassic and Paleocene-Eocene periods were warmer then what we are seeing now, yet no Hummers existed back then. So what made it so warm? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 12:38:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by HalfMooner |
| We're talking about "warming" on a scale that may compare to cataclysmic extinction events like the Permian-Triassic extinction event, or the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum. |
What caused the warming back then that, as you point out, was even more cataclysmic then the warming we are seeing today? According to your statment above the Permian-Triassic and Paleocene-Eocene periods were warmer then what we are seeing now, yet no Hummers existed back then. So what made it so warm?
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Read the links for a change, Bill! |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 12:48:43 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| Then why did you bring up the fact that people who question the theory get labeled as denialists? |
Because of past experience. So far anyone who dares question any evidence put forth in favor of man made global warming on this forum is given the denialist label, by default.
| If the theory is sound, then the only reason to question it is political, which all denialists are. |
All denialist are political? And again, I never said the theory was not sound. The lead researcher from the institution preforming the study said that it was too soon to conclude that any danger looms. Yet the first post was already waiting for fire to bust forth from the ocean.
| No, you did more than that, and you know it. |
Like what?
| Actually, it was the very first reply. |
Even worse.
| Compare it to your Rapture-Ready brothers, and BigPapaSmurf's desire to see a disaster, even if it weren't tongue-in-cheek, looks downright pedestrian. |
You are all over the board. We are talking about methane gas theory here and whether it may, or may not, produce danger if it is released.
Of course, even if "a dangerous release of methane looms" and within a decade all of the climate models have to be revised sharply towards the "global disaster" end of the scale, it's unlikely that anyone is going to see jets of fire coming out of the ocean. So BPS's "alarm" is cartoony, and the only person trying to convince people that it's serious is you, Bill.
So how does it feel to be fanning the brushfire? |
It sort of makes me feel like a man made global warming alarmist. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 12:50:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by HalfMooner |
| he starts with a conclusion, then thrashes about grabbing quotes and slender slivers of "evidence" to support that conclusion. |
Much like you when you accuse someone of racism.
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Bite me.
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The truth hurts. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 13:03:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by filthy
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| The leading researcher in a single institution. |
The institution doing the research.
| I predict that soon there will be many more institutions involved. |
I am sure there will to. They don't want left out of the latest brush fire.
| My own reading tells me that methane has been slowly bubbling up for probably decades. |
Which would be evidence that this is not caused by man made global warming.
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Do you ever bother to study before you speak, on anything? Or do you go with the words of right-wing ignoramouses such as Jim Inhofe, and other super-Christian dimwits?
If you would like to see Dr. Shakhova actually explaining her research, and setting water on fire, buy or rent the DVD Earth, a Biography. Who knows, you might fuck up and learn something.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 03/05/2010 13:07:38 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 13:14:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by HalfMooner |
| We're talking about "warming" on a scale that may compare to cataclysmic extinction events like the Permian-Triassic extinction event, or the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum. |
What caused the warming back then that, as you point out, was even more cataclysmic then the warming we are seeing today? According to your statment above the Permian-Triassic and Paleocene-Eocene periods were warmer then what we are seeing now, yet no Hummers existed back then. So what made it so warm?
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Read the links for a change, Bill!
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I can't right now, but let us review. I have been shown over and over the graph that shows the "global" temperatures go slightly up and down over eons only to spike straight up sometime around the middle of the last century. Yet you tell me that if this methane is released we could see:
| "warming on a scale that may compare to cataclysmic extinction events like the Permian-Triassic extinction event, or the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum." |
But what a minute, I thought the graph showed we are in a warmer period right now then we have ever seen? Yet you are saying if the methane is released right now that we could see warming that was on scale with the Permian-Triassic extinction event, or the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, which means we are not warmer now then in eons past. Which is it? According to your posts I can either cocnlude that we are not living in the warmest period on record, there were times, before Hummers were even being driving around, that were warmer then we are now, or that you have your facts confused and the Permian-Triassic extinction event, or the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, were not as warm or warmer of a period then we are seeing right now. Which is it? We can't be in the biggest temparture spike ever on the global thermometer while also being in danger of warming up to the tempratures that we seen durning Permian-Triassic extinction event, or the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum both at the same time. So are we hotter now or in the Permian-Triassic extinction event, or the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum? On what basis do you come to this conclusion? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 13:21:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
...yet no Hummers existed back then. |
It's great to see you parade your ignorance around, Bill.
It is the rate of today's warming which is what's alarming (because plants and animals and humans will have a harder time adjusting to a high rate than a low rate), and that rate is not explained by the natural processes we measure going on all around us. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 13:53:44 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| It is the rate of today's warming which is what's alarming (because plants and animals and humans will have a harder time adjusting to a high rate than a low rate), and that rate is not explained by the natural processes we measure going on all around us. |
So according to the global thermometer are we hotter now or were we hotter in the Permian-Triassic extinction event, or the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum? And how do the rates of today compare to rates in the Permian-Triassic extinction event, or the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum? Are we living in the hottest recorded period or just the period with the fastest warming rate? If this is not the hottest period of time ever recorded then when was it? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 14:06:52 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| It is the rate of today's warming which is what's alarming (because plants and animals and humans will have a harder time adjusting to a high rate than a low rate), |
So that would mean we are experiencing this rapid rate climb right now as we speak and have been for some time. Are the plants, animals and humans already having a hard time adjusting to this new high rate? If so can you give some examples of this, please. If they/we are not having a harder time adjusting yet with the higher rate how much higher does the rate have to go before this challenge in adjustments begins?
| and that rate is not explained by the natural processes we measure going on all around us. |
That we know of. There could be an natural explanation that we are not aware of, yet, right? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 15:04:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
See what I mean. The lead researcher says that it is too soon to even know if there will be any release, or any danger in any release, yet you want everyone to live their life in an alarmed state.
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Emphasis above mine: Did she really say that? Really?
Show me the quote, please. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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This ain’t good…
