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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
 Posted - 03/05/2010 : 16:40:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
That we know of. There could be an natural explanation that we are not aware of, yet, right? |
Always. And there could be man-made forcers of global warming of which we are unaware. The things for which we don't have any evidence whatsoever are necessarily equivocal, and so are irrelevant.
Of course, since you believe in stuff for which there is no evidence, it's unsurprising that you're trying invoke the unknown so early.
I'll get back to you on the rest of your questions. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 17:21:44 [Permalink]
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A little more:
Destabilized subsea permafrost allowing methane to escape
By Margaret Munro, Canwest News ServiceMarch 5, 2010 Large amounts of methane, a potent climate-warming gas, are escaping from a remote swath of the Arctic Ocean that holds vast stores of the gas, say scientists, who suspect the seabed is "destabilizing."
An international team reports about seven-million tonnes of methane is venting out of the frigid waters north of Siberia each year, dwarfing marine emissions seen anywhere else on Earth.
"The amount of methane currently coming out of the East Siberian Arctic Shelf is comparable to the amount coming out of the entire world's oceans," says Natalia Shakhova, at the International Arctic Research Center at the University of Alaska. She co-led the team of American, Russian and Swedish scientists who detail the findings Friday, in the journal Science.
There has long been concern the release of methane locked in the permafrost could trigger catastrophic and "abrupt" climate change. Methane is more than 20 times more potent at warming the atmosphere than carbon dioxide.
Shakhova and her colleagues say it is not known if the Siberian venting is a "steadily continuing" process or "signals the start of a more massive" methane release. But they say there is an "urgent need" to find out.
Shakhova says her concern is that the subsea permafrost, which formed during the last ice age, is destabilizing and allowing trapped methane to leak out. "If it further destabilizes, the methane emissions may not be tetragrams (millions of tonnes), it would be significantly larger," she says.
A leading Canadian permafrost specialist says the Siberian findings are important, but he sees no need for alarm.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 17:43:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by HalfMooner
. . .
Read the links for a change, Bill!
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I can't right now. . . |
No, you never have read people's links, never do, never will. Which is why people know you as a willful ignoramus. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 22:03:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
So according to the global thermometer are we hotter now or were we hotter in the Permian-Triassic extinction event, or the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum? |
Why does it matter? Life exists at all sorts of different temperatures, and some extinctions have occurred due to the temperatures shifting outside the range within which those animals can live.| And how do the rates of today compare to rates in the Permian-Triassic extinction event, or the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum? |
For the latter, the rate was much lower than today's rate.| Are we living in the hottest recorded period or just the period with the fastest warming rate? If this is not the hottest period of time ever recorded then when was it? |
Depends on what you mean by "recorded." Actual temperature records only go back to 1850 (and we're living in the hottest period on record). Further back, and the "records" we have are through proxies (like tree rings or ice core gasses), which show that it was a little hotter around the time that modern humans evolved, and much hotter after the dinosaurs all croaked, and hotter still waaaay back before there was widespread photosynthesis to scrub the CO2 out of the atmosphere.
I forget: what's your theological take on deep time?
You also asked:| So that would mean we are experiencing this rapid rate climb right now as we speak and have been for some time. |
No, the rapid rate isn't deduced, it's measured.| Are the plants, animals and humans already having a hard time adjusting to this new high rate? If so can you give some examples of this, please. |
Some penguins, seals, walruses, voles, mice, rats, chipmunks, caribou, foxes, elephants, pine trees, bears and many other species are facing difficulties today directly or indirectly from the high rate of warming. If the rate were slower, they'd have more time to adapt, either by moving or by changing their behaviors. Some polar bears, for example, hunt from sea ice, and as it vanishes they either need to switch to land-based hunting or they'll vanish, too. Some cold-adapted mountain animals are no longer seen at the lower altitudes in which they once thrived, having moved up the mountains to follow their preferred temperatures (and once they get to the top, will have nowhere left to go). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 09:09:00 [Permalink]
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| On global warming in general, NASA has this page. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 09:38:45 [Permalink]
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Bill scott is the guy who has this in his signature and listed as his favorite quote:
| "Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." |
As if there is anything wrong with making assumptions.
(Obviously, it matters why you consider some assumptions valid and others not, but that's a distinction I think is lost on Bill) |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 10:10:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Hawks
Bill scott is the guy who has this in his signature and listed as his favorite quote:
| "Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." |
As if there is anything wrong with making assumptions.
(Obviously, it matters why you consider some assumptions valid and others not, but that's a distinction I think is lost on Bill)
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I assume you're right. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 14:02:59 [Permalink]
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In case people like Bill think that this is a new fad, the idea was first floated in the 19th century.
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Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 14:18:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by The Rat
In case people like Bill think that this is a new fad, the idea was first floated in the 19th century.
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I certainly like that better than his racist eugenics work as a founding member of Sweden's Nobel-funded State Institute for Racial Biology. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/06/2010 14:20:52 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/06/2010 : 14:28:03 [Permalink]
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Could be, they have a point:
Humans must be to blame for climate change, say scientists
No possible natural phenomenon could have caused the huge rise in temperatures experienced in last half-century
By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Friday, 5 March 2010
Climate scientists have delivered a powerful riposte to their sceptical critics with a study that strengthens the case for saying global warming is largely the result of man-made emissions of greenhouse gases.
The researchers found that no other possible natural phenomenon, such as volcanic eruptions or variations in the activity of the Sun, could explain the significant warming of the planet over the past half century as recorded on every continent including Antarctica.
It is only when the warming effect of emitting millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere from human activity is considered that it is possible to explain why global average temperatures have risen so significantly since the middle of the 20th century.
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Think about it....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 19:49:47 [Permalink]
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Yeah, a little Yin, a little Yang. |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 23:57:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by The Rat
Yeah, a little Yin, a little Yang.
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A little bit Einstein, a little bit Hitler. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2010 : 10:09:58 [Permalink]
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RealClimate on the Methane issue:CO2 is plenty to be frightened of, while methane is frosting on the cake. Imagine you are in a Toyota on the highway at 60 miles per hour approaching stopped traffic, and you find that the brake pedal is broken. This is CO2. Then you figure out that the accelerator has also jammed, so that by the time you hit the truck in front of you, you will be going 90 miles per hour instead of 60. This is methane. Is now the time to get worried? No, you should already have been worried by the broken brake pedal. Methane sells newspapers, but it’s not the big story, nor does it look to be a game changer to the big story, which is CO2. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2010 : 11:52:19 [Permalink]
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| Methane has a half-life in the atmosphere. Which means it will go away by itself eventually (in the time span of a century or so). CO2 doesn't, it's there to stay for much longer. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2010 : 13:25:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Methane has a half-life in the atmosphere. Which means it will go away by itself eventually (in the time span of a century or so). CO2 doesn't, it's there to stay for much longer. |
To be more precise, a methane molecule lingers in the atmosphere for only 11-12 years, compared to up to 200 years for CO2 (and 9 days for water vapor). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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This ain’t good…
