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Rudolfo
Banned
124 Posts |
 Posted - 03/25/2010 : 07:46:49
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What is the physical evidence for holocaust gas chambers?
Well, there are now 6 alleged 'death camps', each containing gas chambers, but four were razed before the end of the war. Two are still standing, Auschwitz and Majdanek, and both have a 'gas chamber' that are presented to the public every day. I'll focus on these alleged gas chambers.
There are also ruins of one or two crematorium at Auschwitz that are alleged to have contained gas chambers. And there are what are ostensibly shower rooms at Dachau and Sashenhausen (only the floor remains) that are alleged to have been gas chambers, but no one is alleged to have been gassed in them ! Ah, what a tangled web ...
The alleged gas chambers at Auschwitz and Majdanek are obvious hoaxes, as can be seen on inspection, as they both contain large plate glass windows. Now, it is possible that Dave W. and filthy think large plate glass window in a gas chamber are de rigeur, but most of us, I assume will realize that a gas chamber, even more than a jail cell, cannot contain a large glass window.
So, let's document the windows ...
Auschwitz http://www.historiography-project.com/misc/doors.html
Majdanek http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScrapBook/DachauPhotos/OldPhotos/MajdanekStains.jpg
Now, any reasonable person will realize that these rooms cannot be gas chambers. And so, I would expect the skeptics on this forum to be howling at the crude deception these rooms represent. So I won't belabor the point. There is no physical evidence of gas chambers.
The rooms do raise other issues:
1. What implication can you make about the persons and institutions that claim that these rooms are gas chambers?
2. Here is a real mystery - thousands of people have been shown these rooms, and told that they were homicidal gas chambers, and, they believed it. That is they didn't look at the windows and confront the guide by saying something like 'are you an idiot, a gas chamber can't have a window'. This is an astounding testament to the power of propaganda, conditioning, and the gullibility of people.
3. What were the rooms? The room at Auschwitz is a morgue room in a crematorium. The room at Majdanek is a fumigation room where Zyklon, a commercial insecticide used all over Europe, was used to delouse clothing to prevent the spread of typhus. Thus, evidence of the life saving measures taken by the Nazis to prevent disease in the camps is being presented as evidence of an extermination plan. Folks, it doesn't get any more twisted than that.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 08:24:24 [Permalink]
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Link
Now you are starting to aim snide, childish little remarks in my direction. It has been my experience that that sort of thing mostly happens when when your argument can't stand on it's own.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 08:36:19 [Permalink]
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| I'm positive that this is DanTheMan presenting a more "reasonable" face. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 08:42:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
I'm positive that this is DanTheMan presenting a more "reasonable" face.
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Agree, or possibly more likely, a friend with a computer in cahoots.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Rudolfo
Banned
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 09:17:15 [Permalink]
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[Now you are starting to aim snide, childish little remarks in my direction. It has been my experience that that sort of thing mostly happens when when your argument can't stand on it's own. ]
You're offended? LOL.
For the record, I was commenting on your earlier comment on the gas chamber windows...
[I do not recall if there was a window in the chamber, but I'd think there would be. How else might the Nazis know if their roast was marinated and ready to cook?]
Even after that remark I was hoping you would make rational comments, as you are older, were a soldier, actually were in the alleged gas chamber, etc. Now it appears to me that you are only looking for an excuse to indulge in idiocy. Please, prove me wrong. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 09:26:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rudolfo
The alleged gas chambers at Auschwitz and Majdanek are obvious hoaxes, as can be seen on inspection, as they both contain large plate glass windows. Now, it is possible that Dave W. and filthy think large plate glass window in a gas chamber are de rigeur, but most of us, I assume will realize that a gas chamber, even more than a jail cell, cannot contain a large glass window. |
Define "large." Present evidence that the windows are made of "plate glass." Jail Cells do have large windows. They have bars on them, so the inmates don't escape. The only problem with windows on a gas chamber is if they're built weakly and in such a location that the intended victims could easily break them.| So, let's document the windows ... |
Yes, let's do.Again, this is a museum reconstruction, and not offered as evidence of anything.In other photos on the Web, you can see bars on that window. Even if it weren't barred, it's high up enough to ensure that weak, hungry people couldn't get leverage enough to break it. The real question should have been "why is it there?" Can you answer that one?| Now, any reasonable person will realize that these rooms cannot be gas chambers. |
That little trick is known as "poisoning the well."| And so, I would expect the skeptics on this forum to be howling at the crude deception these rooms represent. |
I think we'll just howl more at your logical and argumentative failures.| So I won't belabor the point. |
I take this to mean you won't address the points in this reply.| There is no physical evidence of gas chambers. |
Now that's just ridiculous. There is evidence, you just choose to interpret it (badly) and come to the conclusion that the evidence doesn't support the "homicidal" gas-chamber conclusion.| 3. What were the rooms? The room at Auschwitz is a morgue room in a crematorium. |
Are you sure it wasn't an air-raid shelter?| The room at Majdanek is a fumigation room where Zyklon, a commercial insecticide used all over Europe, was used to delouse clothing to prevent the spread of typhus. |
I predicted your response here correctly. Why is there a window in a delousing gas chamber?| Thus, evidence of the life saving measures taken by the Nazis to prevent disease in the camps is being presented as evidence of an extermination plan.[quote]Nobody denies the existence of delousing chambers in the same camp. There's more than one "gas chamber." The delousing chambers were built differently.[quote]Folks, it doesn't get any more twisted than that. |
No, your logic can't possibly get much more twisted. I hope. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 09:34:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rudolfo
[Now you are starting to aim snide, childish little remarks in my direction. It has been my experience that that sort of thing mostly happens when when your argument can't stand on it's own. ]
You're offended? LOL.
For the record, I was commenting on your earlier comment on the gas chamber windows...
[I do not recall if there was a window in the chamber, but I'd think there would be. How else might the Nazis know if their roast was marinated and ready to cook?]
Even after that remark I was hoping you would make rational comments, as you are older, were a soldier, actually were in the alleged gas chamber, etc. Now it appears to me that you are only looking for an excuse to indulge in idiocy. Please, prove me wrong.
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Not offended; I've seen it too many times before. I was using it as a comment upon your argument. And since when does someone need an excuse to "indulge in idiocy?" You don't seem to need one.
Did you open the link I provided? Probably not.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Rudolfo
Banned
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 13:06:35 [Permalink]
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[In other photos on the Web, you can see bars on that window.]
Why post such rubbish. You can see the window clearly on the site linked below, with no bars, and there is a lot of additional description of the fumigation room -
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/poland/majdanek/majdanek02.html
[I predicted your response here correctly. Why is there a window in a delousing gas chamber?]
To let in light. I saw a site months ago that had many pics of the interior of the whole building, most of the rooms had windows to let in light as do most rooms if not all rooms in any building. There were halls with lots of windows and slats along the floor, like a shower room as shown in the one pic I found below. Usually scrapbookpages.com is good for pics, but doesn't have any of the many rooms in the building, so I'll guess they are closed to the public. Here is one other pic of another room in the building ...
http://bss.sfsu.edu/jacksonc/H317/Holocaust%20Memorials/MAIDANEK-GK.jpg
The site I lost had many similar pics. |
| Edited by - Rudolfo on 03/25/2010 13:07:14 |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 13:21:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rudolfo
Thus, evidence of the life saving measures taken by the Nazis to prevent disease in the camps
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So what you're saying is that "guests" of these camps should be thankful to the Nazis cause the Nazis were just trying to house them and keep them safe? Thanks for clearing that up. I'll let the Shoah Foundation know. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 13:24:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rudolfo
[In other photos on the Web, you can see bars on that window.]
Why post such rubbish. You can see the window clearly on the site linked below, with no bars, and there is a lot of additional description of the fumigation room -
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/poland/majdanek/majdanek02.html |
Okay, you're being utterly ludicrous.
Here's the first photo you linked to:
And you'll notice that the frame the window is in is nearly flush with the ceiling. Now here's the photo that you claim is of the same window:
And we can see that the window has magically dropped a few inches, and the lines in the ceiling (parallel to the window face) have magically vanished!
They're not the same window. They're not even in the same room.
Try to do some basic fact-checking before embarrassing yourself further. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 20:26:56 [Permalink]
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Interestingly, the previous photos must have been old, because in the below photo, it looks like electrical conduits have been installed right across the top of the window (perhaps to lengthen the hours for tourists?):
(Here, Rudolfo, I'll throw you a bone: Nathan Benn is lying when he claims that the room has no windows. Twice.)
Here's another image of the new electrical conduits (yeah, they've installed lights).
Hey, I can finally read the danged sign!
The sign says:REINFORCED CONCRETE CHAMBER FOR
THE EXTERMINATION OF PRISONERS WITH
CARBON OXIDE. THE GAS WAS SUPPLIED
BY MEANS OF A CONDUIT FROM THE
SS-MAN'S BOOTH.
CYCLONE B WAS ALSO USED HERE A slightly different angle. Perhaps I was mistaken about the bars (at least it's the same window). But look at how deep that window frame is.
Here is an image of the room that is teasingly cropped to just miss out on that window (but pre-installation of lights):
Hey, this page seems to show your second window photo:
Note that the pattern on the ceiling appears to match. Note also the support beams which haven't been seen in any image of the room depicted in your first photo, Rudolfo.
Ah! Here is the room in your second photo:
Yeah, a very different room. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Rudolfo
Banned
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2010 : 05:47:11 [Permalink]
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[Yeah, a very different room.]
I said it was a different room. I used to have a link (before my computer crashed) to a site with lots of photos of the interior of the fumigation building, which I can't find now. There are lots of rooms in the building, with lots of windows, with a long corridor with slats on the floor, and the corridor has lots of windows. Many of the windows are high, for light I assume. The only point was that there is a lot of info out there we don't have right now. I googled for a bit and just found a few photos scattered about, but no site with a comprehensive set.
To get an idea of the layout that includes the fumigation room, the scrapbook pages description is the best (and only) one I've found. It's a pretty complicated layout. I don't think there is sufficient info available to know what the various rooms were for.
Also, Majdanek was the place where the Nazis sent the clothes they took, odd practice for sure, so the building was no doubt for processing these clothes.
The room is a fumigation room, there is no doubt about that (you know, the window). And, the whole idea of Majdanek as a death camp is finished, with the establishment figures for the number that died there in agreement (within a few thousand) of the revisionist figure. The claims that the fumigation room is a gas chamber will also be dropped I think as the establishment position is now that the 50,000 or so that died at Majdanek died from a variety of causes not including gassing. I think the number of alleged deaths was about a million at Nuremberg, then 300,000 for a long time, with other estimates all over the place, and now the number that is actually supported by evidence and analysis on the order of 50,000. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2010 : 07:31:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rudolfo
[Yeah, a very different room.]
I said it was a different room. |
Liar. You said, "You can see the window..." Not "a" window in a different room, but the window I was talking about.
And this is great stuff:I don't think there is sufficient info available to know what the various rooms were for.
...
The room is a fumigation room, there is no doubt about that (you know, the window). |
That's just a brilliant self-contradiction, there. You're a laugh riot.
The window proves nothing, unless you can present evidence that a person in the process of being gassed could have broken it. Carbon monoxide is undetectable.| And, the whole idea of Majdanek as a death camp is finished, with the establishment figures for the number that died there in agreement (within a few thousand) of the revisionist figure. The claims that the fumigation room is a gas chamber will also be dropped I think as the establishment position is now that the 50,000 or so that died at Majdanek died from a variety of causes not including gassing. I think the number of alleged deaths was about a million at Nuremberg, then 300,000 for a long time, with other estimates all over the place, and now the number that is actually supported by evidence and analysis on the order of 50,000. |
I find 78,000. Majdanek wasn't conceived of as a death camp, and mass murders weren't a regular thing there. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2010 : 10:25:09 [Permalink]
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| I'll take Rudolfo's silence in this thread to mean that our criticisms of his arguments were iron-clad refutations of them, and that he has run away from this discussion. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2010 : 12:00:45 [Permalink]
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Maybe he's celebrating pesach?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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What is the physical evidence for gas chambers?
