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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 11:09:15 [Permalink]
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I'm assuming that the important knowledge that the lost cultures of Central and South America was "real knowledge," not purely religious concepts and rituals. So that's the stuff I'll address.
Some of these elements of lost knowledge might include Quipu, the yet-undecipherable Inca knot system that may have worked analogously to a full and rich system of "writing" (or might have been merely a simpler number-based accounting system). Then there's Maya script, which, though suppressed by the Spanish, is being reconstructed. We must also count in the lost knowledge of the cultures' own histories, as well as their knowledge of surgery, medical procedures and pharmaceuticals. (I think it's not improbable that some of the Mesoamerican cultures had a much better pharmacopoeia than existed in the Western world a hundred years ago.)
Then there's the lost knowledge of their own voyagers and explorers. They probably knew a good deal about their neighbors. It's anyone's guess what other knowledge might have been lost, though these unknowns surely don't include modern-type industry or technology. Not much of all this consists of physical manufactured technology, but it's important stuff.
I agree with the others here who say knowledge itself is never evil. (It can be dangerous.) Much of Aztec religious activity was incredibly cruel, but that's culture, not knowledge in the sense that I think we're discussing. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/27/2010 11:22:40 |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
 Posted - 04/27/2010 : 11:48:11 [Permalink]
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From having this discussion here today I have come to the conclusion that mt brother-in-law and I had very different ideas of what we meant by the word "knowledge". I have a feeling he was talking more about religious rituals while I was talking more about historical records, agricultural practices, and such.(I would be very interested in learning about the religious aspect of the culture too). I have learned that I need to be more specific when discussing these things with people.
| Then there's the lost knowledge of their own voyagers and explorers. They probably knew a good deal about their neighbors |
This is what I'm most interested in. The last few years I have spent a great deal of time studying Polynesian history. One big question that has never been resolved (that I have come across yet) is if the Polynesians and South Americans had any interaction. There is some evidence such as the sweet potato, which originates in South America, being a staple of the Polynesian diet. There is also a legend in Peru of a king visiting (presumably from Polynesia) and teaching them to surf.
Could these questions have been answered if their written records weren't destroyed? We'll never know. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 12:04:12 [Permalink]
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A working definition is that knowledge is "justified true belief." It's gotta be true, and you've got to have a good justification for believing whatever it is. As such, religious rituals per se are never knowledge, but we can have knowledge of religious rituals.Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Agreed. Now the big question is: How do we get those with closed minds to accept this? |
Show them examples of cases where knowledge was lost for centuries before being re-found, and the consequences. Of course, first you've got to get them interested in a global society, instead of just their own backyards.
One of my favorite Bill Hicks' stories is about when he sat down with a book in a rural bar and one of the other patrons asked, "whatchu readin' fer?" Not "what are you reading," but "what are you reading for?" |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 12:21:41 [Permalink]
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| One of my favorite Bill Hicks' stories is about when he sat down with a book in a rural bar and one of the other patrons asked, "whatchu readin' fer?" Not "what are you reading," but "what are you reading for?" |
I might ask the same thing if I were at the tavern and saw somebody reading. Taverns are fer drinkin'...not lernin'. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 14:05:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Taverns are fer drinkin'...not lernin'. |
'Round these here parts, it's pronounced "larnin'." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 19:26:38 [Permalink]
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| Show them examples of cases where knowledge was lost for centuries before being re-found, and the consequences. |
Maybe the example of Greek knowledge would convince him -- philosophy, math, science, etc -- most of which the Europeans didn't know. I presume the Church (as in the European Church) assumed "pagan" knowledge like that to be "probably evil" as well, but turned out to be so influential. |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
| Edited by - Machi4velli on 04/27/2010 19:26:58 |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 21:48:04 [Permalink]
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It's all very interesting. I was on a different page. All the replies have induced thought. In poking around the net about this, I see terminology comes into play. Take the Incas, when that culture's doctors believed "all sicknesses were provoke by the action of supernatural forces" , I'm thinking primative. No doubt more advanced compared to what "lucy" had.
A peruvian woman once told me, when the Spaniards invaded/conquered South America they built their churches on top of the Inca temples. It's very visible in the transitional stone work here and here. It came up while looking at pictures of a big church in Lima she had. Done to erase one culture and replace it with their own culture and entrench power, I gather. I can believe existing knowledge/writings were burned as a matter of course. Also I was comparing our cultures present position as the standard, when saying other conquered civilizations were not that advanced. Which isn't a fair yard stick or in sync with Ebone4rock's train of thought. The muslims did that to the jews with the Dome of the Rock Mosque, in Jerusalem. It's what the victors do. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2010 : 22:39:13 [Permalink]
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How can you place a value judgment on something which is unknown? Before we can consider whether some piece of knowledge was good to have been "lost," we'd have to know what it was that was lost. But if we had knowledge of the knowledge, then it wouldn't be lost.
| My position is that all knowledge is valuable and it is a shame that we lost a great majority of what they knew. His position is that it is good that their knowledge was destroyed because it could have only been evil. |
You're brother-in-law has absolutely no way of knowing that the lost knowledge was evil, so his position is intellectually indefensible.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Are we better off for losing certain knowledge?
