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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  13:40:13  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's scientificallly proven:



CONCLUSION
People who say "Pop" are much, much cooler.


I call it pop. What do you say?

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  14:14:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That you would consider such a study to be conclusive in any way just goes to show how devious those who call it "pop" are. The sampling method is erroneous, absolutely no ability to check the trustworthiness of participants, and the conclusion is one big non sequitur. Clearly those who call it "soda" are much better.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Randy
SFN Regular

USA
1989 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  14:22:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Randy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Speaking of trying to look/be cool....

"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."

"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  14:35:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky

That you would consider such a study to be conclusive in any way just goes to show how devious those who call it "pop" are. The sampling method is erroneous, absolutely no ability to check the trustworthiness of participants, and the conclusion is one big non sequitur. Clearly those who call it "soda" are much better.


That's what a person would say that would only put two L's in scientifcallly.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular

USA
894 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  15:48:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ebone4rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Gorgo

It's scientificallly proven:



CONCLUSION
People who say "Pop" are much, much cooler.


I call it pop. What do you say?

In my particular geographic area both soda and pop are used equally. I call it Soda-Pop.

I clearly recall when I was in the Navy and first figured out that people meant any kind of random soda when they said "coke". I can't stand that.

Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  15:58:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ebone4rock

Originally posted by Gorgo

It's scientificallly proven:



CONCLUSION
People who say "Pop" are much, much cooler.


I call it pop. What do you say?

In my particular geographic area both soda and pop are used equally. I call it Soda-Pop.

I clearly recall when I was in the Navy and first figured out that people meant any kind of random soda when they said "coke". I can't stand that.


I didn't know people did that. I suppose it's like using Kleenex for any kind of tissue, but Coke is a specific soft drink. It isn't root beer.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  16:53:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I guess I just ain't all that cool, but then, I'm not of the Pepsi Generation.

As a kid, I too, called it soda pop.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  16:59:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Gorgo

I suppose it's like using Kleenex for any kind of tissue...
Or "Band-Aid" for any adhesive bandage, or "Lego" for any snap-together building brick, or "Xerox" for any kind of photocopying. Genericizing trademarks happens all the time.
...but Coke is a specific soft drink. It isn't root beer.
Yeah, but they're not using "coke" to refer to wine or milk, or to actual beer. Just like Erector Sets aren't "Lego," and scanning-and-printing isn't "Xeroxing."

Edited to add last sentence.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  17:48:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by Gorgo
...but Coke is a specific soft drink. It isn't root beer.
Yeah, but they're not using "coke" to refer to wine or milk, or to actual beer. Just like Erector Sets aren't "Lego," and scanning-and-printing isn't "Xeroxing."
Yes, but genericizing trademarks usually happens because one brand has such a monopoly on a product that there is essentially only one choice, and so therefore their name becomes synonymous with the product itself. By contrast, the soft drink market is awash in different flavors, brands, and sub-categories. If someone says "Pass me a Kleenex," you don't have to stop and ask "what kind?" You just give them a tissue. Yet in this case, people are asking for a Coke and then expecting to be handed a totally different soft drink, like a Sprite. It's unnecessarily confusing and not comparable to the other instances you mentioned, in my opinion.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  18:43:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by H. Humbert

Yes, but genericizing trademarks usually happens because one brand has such a monopoly on a product that there is essentially only one choice, and so therefore their name becomes synonymous with the product itself. By contrast, the soft drink market is awash in different flavors, brands, and sub-categories.
So how did "coke" become genericized?
If someone says "Pass me a Kleenex," you don't have to stop and ask "what kind?" You just give them a tissue.
Unless you're at the local Facial Tissue Bar, which serves many different brands. "I'd like a Kleenex, please," would be met with, "you want an actual Kleenex, or some other type?"
Yet in this case, people are asking for a Coke and then expecting to be handed a totally different soft drink, like a Sprite.
At home, there's often only one kind. In a restaurant, the wait staff isn't going to assume that "coke" means "Sprite" without asking. You've gotta be a serious regular before the staff knows, for example, that when you ask for "a beer," you want a Rolling Rock. Same thing with "coke" where it's the norm.
It's unnecessarily confusing...
Many parts of English are unnecessarily confusing. Besides, many people in the region where "coke" is the generic term are confused, since they "cut on" the lights.
...and not comparable to the other instances you mentioned, in my opinion.
I don't see that much of a distinction.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  18:59:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just the plausibility of the scenario:

Do you want a coke?
Yes.
What kind?
A coke.

Is enough for me to never use it.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  19:33:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky

Is enough for me to never use it.
Stay out of the South, then.

When my wife got back from her first stint at college right after high school, she'd gotten accustomed to calling it "pop," and all her friends in this soda area made no end of fun of her until she changed her habit back around.

I imagine that in a coke area, people will actually look at you funny if you were to ask for a soda or a pop. I got funny looks when asking for the location of the bathroom while in Canada, where the room in a home or business with the toilet in it is referred to as the restroom, with very few exceptions.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  20:24:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.
You've gotta be a serious regular before the staff knows, for example, that when you ask for "a beer," you want a Rolling Rock. Same thing with "coke" where it's the norm.
But it's not the same thing since a Coke is already a specific type of soft drink. It's more like saying "I'll have a Rolling Rock."
"What kind?"
"Coors."

I don't see that much of a distinction.
It's different because in the other cases, the generalized term isn't also used to specify a unique choice.

Unless you're at the local Facial Tissue Bar, which serves many different brands. "I'd like a Kleenex, please," would be met with, "you want an actual Kleenex, or some other type?"
Well, that's exactly my point. There aren't a wide variety of tissue types to choose from, which is why calling them all Kleenex works, and calling all soft drinks Cokes doesn't.

So how did "coke" become genericized?
It's the South. I don't really understand their thinking on anything, to be honest.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  22:09:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by H. Humbert

But it's not the same thing since a Coke is already a specific type of soft drink. It's more like saying "I'll have a Rolling Rock."
"What kind?"
"Coors."
I knew a guy who called any beer "Bud," so we might not be far off from that.
It's different because in the other cases, the generalized term isn't also used to specify a unique choice.
Xerox, Lego and Kleenex aren't unique choices among photocopiers, building blocks and facial tissues, respectively?
Well, that's exactly my point. There aren't a wide variety of tissue types to choose from, which is why calling them all Kleenex works, and calling all soft drinks Cokes doesn't.
Not being a tissue connoisseur, I can still name Puffs and the store-brand tissues from Giant, Safeway, Costco (Kirkland), CVS, etc. Kimberly-Clark is probably Kleenex' biggest competition for industrial and hotel tissues. And that's off the top of my head, without resorting to Google.

It may not be the wide variety that soft drinks enjoy, but they didn't enjoy such a variety 100 years ago, either. I wonder what the distribution of drinks was way back when. That'd probably offer a big clue as to how the Southerners started using "coke" as a generic.

Heck, I sometimes forget that Giant supermarkets only exist in three states and D.C., and so think that everyone else knows what I'm talking about when I say, "I went to Giant to pick up blah, blah, blah." Of course, the difference there is that I meant "Giant," and not "Safeway" or "Food Lion" or any other chain supermarket.

But, I heard a rumor several months ago that some people are starting to call all large, cheap department stores "Walmart." And I've met people who call all convenience stores "7/11."

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular

USA
854 Posts

Posted - 05/09/2010 :  22:36:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Machi4velli a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Are we sure they really mean "any soft drink" when they say Coke? I mean sometimes I say Coke expecting it's what the person/restaurant I'm asking has, but if they have Pepsi, that's my second choice, but I did actually mean Coke when I said it.

And in West Virginia, it's pop, I can verify that one.

"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking

"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus
Edited by - Machi4velli on 05/09/2010 22:39:15
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2010 :  01:56:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.
Xerox, Lego and Kleenex aren't unique choices among photocopiers, building blocks and facial tissues, respectively?
Well, the choices aren't unique enough to matter. They're pretty much interchangeable. If someone tells you to Xerox something, it's understood that they just want a copy made. They don't actually care if you use an actual Xerox machine to do it. If they ask for a Kleenex, they want a tissue to blow their nose. They don't actually care what brand of tissue you have to offer, since a tissue is a tissue is a tissue.

Now, I've never heard of anyone call an erector set "Legos," so I don't know how common that is, but since those are mutually exclusive building systems, then that would be exactly the sort of incompatibility between terms I'm objecting to. Legos are not an erector set. Now, I know there are some knockoff plastic building blocks that look exactly like Legos but maybe have slightly different sizes. I've heard people call these blocks Legos, but I don't see the problem there because they are more or less the same product, one is just the generic.

Not being a tissue connoisseur, I can still name Puffs and the store-brand tissues from Giant, Safeway, Costco (Kirkland), CVS, etc. Kimberly-Clark is probably Kleenex' biggest competition for industrial and hotel tissues. And that's off the top of my head, without resorting to Google.
I'm not saying there aren't different brands. I'm saying the difference between the brands is negligible. No one notices or cares if they're handed a Puffs when they asked for a Kleenex. That's completely different than asking for a Coke and getting a Mountain Dew, especially if the person asking actually did want a Coke.

It may not be the wide variety that soft drinks enjoy, but they didn't enjoy such a variety 100 years ago, either. I wonder what the distribution of drinks was way back when. That'd probably offer a big clue as to how the Southerners started using "coke" as a generic.
Yeah, I would imagine the same thing.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 05/10/2010 02:05:20
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