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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2010 :  14:44:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ebone4rock

I've tried marijuana....on many occasions. I have never tried coke.....or anything traditionally considered "harder" than marijuana.

I bet that is what they found out in most cases so they had to twist the stats.
Ha! I am a conspiracy theorist now!

The stats they listed are probably accurate.

They just didn't give us the stats that would actually support their argument. It isn't even a matter of lying with statistics, they are just flat out lying and inventing a conclusion that fits their bias.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular

USA
854 Posts

Posted - 05/18/2010 :  20:51:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Machi4velli a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude
The stats they listed are probably accurate.

They just didn't give us the stats that would actually support their argument.

Definitely, the statistics presented that way are all but meaningless. Only the reverse direction would be useful. I don't necessarily even disagree with the idea of pot being a "gateway" drug, but those stats don't support it.

"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking

"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 05/19/2010 :  10:59:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Sandwiches aren't illegal mind-altering narcotics.


Same can be said about marijuana.

Not where I live.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 05/19/2010 :  14:06:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Originally posted by Dude

Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Sandwiches aren't illegal mind-altering narcotics.


Same can be said about marijuana.

Not where I live.


Marijuana is not a narcotic.

I understand that the word is applied to marijuana in some places, it is a colloquialism (generic for "illegal drug"). No medical or scientific text or agency will describe marijuana as a narcotic.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 05/19/2010 :  15:36:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Originally posted by Dude

Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Sandwiches aren't illegal mind-altering narcotics.


Same can be said about marijuana.

Not where I live.


Marijuana is not a narcotic.

I understand that the word is applied to marijuana in some places, it is a colloquialism (generic for "illegal drug"). No medical or scientific text or agency will describe marijuana as a narcotic.


Mind-altering drug then. It's still illegal in my part of the world.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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astropin
SFN Regular

USA
970 Posts

Posted - 05/19/2010 :  17:27:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send astropin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Mind-altering drug then. It's still illegal in my part of the world.



Ours to

I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.

You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.

Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.

Infinitus est numerus stultorum
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Elmo the Clown
New Member

31 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2010 :  11:49:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Elmo the Clown's Homepage Send Elmo the Clown a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gateway drug... pft. Not if it's available. I smoked pounds and pounds of the stuff, quitting when the wife got pregnant, and not touching it since (well, not entirely true, I found a joint one of the cats had put under the stove 6-months later.

Zero desire to try anything else (unless you count "Green Dragon" from soaking the pot leaves on vodka. It was as good as it was disgusting tasting.

However. I did find that pot was the gateway drug to overeating salty and sweet snacks.

Support a clown, buy a luury cruise from www.ChicLuxuryCruises.com (or any cruise...)
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular

USA
854 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2010 :  15:41:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Machi4velli a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Fripp

IMO, the only reason that marijuana may be considered a "gateway" drug is that once someone breaks the law and buys pot, buying coke isn't that big a deal. Plus, people who buy/sell/use pot will most likely also have access to other drugs.

If it were determined pot leads to other drugs at a high rate, I don't think it's really enough, maybe if someone also did a study comparing the "gateway-ness" of pot to other drugs in comparable countries in which it is legal and illegal, they could test the degree to which the legality of pot contributes to the difference.

"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking

"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1447 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2010 :  18:18:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm one more data point for marijuana not being a gateway drug to the hard stuff, if you don't include vodka & tequila as hard stuff.

My favorite circular argument that I hear as to why to keep marijuana illegal is because it's illegal.

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2010 :  03:50:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been using pot steadily for years. I've found it to be a pretty good pain-killer for my arthritis as well as a pleasant buzz. I will continue to use it and am not at all tempted to "upgrade," as it were, to anything else, including perfectly legal, prescription opiate derivatives.

Almost anything can be a gateway "drug." I think that by far the most dangerous is alcohol.

On a lighter, indeed hysterical note there is this:
Like the old song goes, one of these things is not like the other...

However, remind a police officer in Corpus Christi, Texas of those famed Cookie Monster lyrics and they're likely to give you an annoyed look.

That's because a recently discovered cache of plants, initially pegged by officials speaking to local news as "one of the largest marijuana plant seizures in the police department's history," turned out to be a relatively common prairie flower of little significance.

Texas officers ultimately spent hours laboring to tag and remove up to 400 plants from a city park, discovering only after a battery of tests that they had been sweating over mere Horse Mint, a member of the mint family -- effectively turning their ambitious drug bust into mere yard work.

The plants, which bear very few aesthetic similarities to cannabis, were reported by an unnamed youth who came across them while riding a bike in the park around 8 p.m. on Thursday. Upon visual inspection, police apparently agreed that the inoffensive plants had to go.

Story continues below...

Now friends, anyone in this day and age who can't tell the difference between reefer and mint at a glance has no business enforcing drug laws until he does. Here is the evil growth in question:



I wonder if it makes a good mint tea.....

Being a skeptic, and a fairly cynical one, I wonder if the kid who tipped off the cops isn't enjoying a good laugh right now. I certainly am....

On a more practical note, NC is on the cusp of legalizing medical marijuana.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13457 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2010 :  08:28:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If grass is a gateway drug, it's because it's not legal. If importing and selling pot is in the hands of criminals, who happen to be selling other stuff too, access to pot can also mean access to other drugs. Its very illegality, in that way, has created a drug culture. I know. I used to be in it when back in the sixties we tried just about anything. Because of the underground nature the drug culture, because of the laws regarding pot and narcotics, it was often the same person who sold both. And that person was a criminal and we were criminals. From that mindset and common source availability, it was easy to rationalize trying other things.

If grass is legal, you aren't palling around with criminals to get it. And you aren't a criminal yourself. A more serious drug culture will still exist, but for those who just want to smoke a little pot, there is no hobnobbing with and identifying with criminals, or even participating in a criminal activity for a few extra bucks. You just go to the store, buy a little weed, the state gets some revenue, and everyone is happy. Everyone but those who make shitloads importing and selling illicit drugs.

Keeping grass listed as an illicit narcotic is mind bogglingly stupid and terribly counter productive.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular

USA
854 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2010 :  17:50:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Machi4velli a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kil is a libertarian, get him!

"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking

"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 05/31/2010 :  19:55:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Machi4velli

Kil is a libertarian, get him!
Nah, he said "the state gets some revenue" without a hint of bitterness at the taxation.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 06/01/2010 :  22:27:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Speaking of pot, Denis Hopper just passed away. He usually played a character where he smoked Marijuana or someone who was traveling way passed that scientifically proven "gateway drug". RIP Dennis.
Originally posted by astropin

Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Mind-altering drug then. It's still illegal in my part of the world.



Ours to

About that booklet mentioned. Like the booklet the US government made a movie about the dangers of Marijuana, in 1938, that younger generations before were instructed with. Just like this booklet it contained the government facts. Why would they need to lie when the dangers are so real, easily proven and observable? Just like now with the pamphlet, there were people who said the movie was just a bunch of made up stuff that wasn't true. Why is it made up stuff always ends up being, eh, made up false? If your going to make up stuff you should make it truthful. Anyway, they openly laughed at how the movie showed people acting very dopey when they smoked pot. That's why they call it dope! It makes people act dopey, right?. It took a while but look how it finally got Dennis Hopper too. People would be so much better off if they weren't so recalcitrant. People think pot makes one mellow and laid back but not in that movie! What was the name of that movie?

Oh and it was Tricky Dick Nixon that officially declared war on drugs in the US. Why? Acording to tricky, "People use marijuana to get high. People use alcohol to have fun" and "Every one of the bastards that are out for legalizing marijuana is Jewish", reportedly his words. Before the war was declared there was a government commission that did some studies, for those to young to remember, in 1971.
from an article linked below
The commission sponsored over 50 research projects, conducted numerous opinion polls and held many hearings, at which it took thousands of pages of testimony. To this day, the commission's work stands as the most thorough, unbiased study of marijuana ever conducted by the federal government.

If anyone wants to really debate pot that might be a great place to start for data. I don't think the movie or the pamphlet, which was being discussed earlier, should be used as factual references. Here's the article which goes through a little history, if someone might like to read the whole thing. SS

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 06/02/2010 :  04:52:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by sailingsoul

What was the name of that movie?
Tell Your Children (also known as Reefer Madness).

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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