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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2010 :  10:39:57  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Typical

Where is the MoveOn.org video advertisement that had been posted on their website for the last three years now? Gone, erased, deleted, removed, scrubbed! Almost like it never happened.


Typical of progressives, their values are everchanging to match their agenda's.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington

Ebone4rock
SFN Regular

USA
894 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2010 :  11:04:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ebone4rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Robb

Typical

Where is the MoveOn.org video advertisement that had been posted on their website for the last three years now? Gone, erased, deleted, removed, scrubbed! Almost like it never happened.


Typical of progressives, their values are everchanging to match their agenda's.


The only thing they had going for them with the whole "Betray-us" thing was the rhyme.

I know I'm among mostly liberals here but I just love this part of the article.
Mr. Obama has said that he is again tasked with cleaning up a Bush legacy by replacing General McChrystal with Petraeus. Uh, wasn’t it Obama that appointed McChrystal less than a year ago? How is that Bush’s fault? Sorry, I forgot, everything is Bush’s fault until there are no more problems in Government (I think that is what Nancy Pelocsi said).

Can anyone say “Hypocrites?


I recently got into a small argument with my father in law (who bleeds Obama) when he said " If Obama wouldn't have approved the bailout for the banking industry the whole country would have gone to shit" I had to remind him that it was Bush who did that. He didn't beleive me until I showed him a wikipedia article. (Wikipedia knows everything dontcha know)

Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2010 :  12:16:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Robb

Typical of progressives, their values are everchanging to match their agenda's.
Nice blanket statement. Sorta like looking at the Oklahoma City bombers and saying, "typical Christians."

Plenty of liberals criticized the "Betray Us" ad back when it was first published. And MoveOn.org doesn't have a lock on liberalism or progressivism.

Nor does it have a lock on stupid people who'll change their opinions as often as I change my socks. Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin (etc.) aren't liberals, but they're all guilty of the same thing you're complaining about. Where are your "typical of conservatives" posts when they do it, Robb?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2010 :  12:23:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Be nice to see a citation for this claim, too:
Mr. Obama has said that he is again tasked with cleaning up a Bush legacy by replacing General McChrystal with Petraeus.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Hal
Skeptic Friend

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2010 :  14:40:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Hal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Be nice to see a citation for this claim, too:
Mr. Obama has said that he is again tasked with cleaning up a Bush legacy by replacing General McChrystal with Petraeus.



Everything is opinion now. You might have thought that the words "Mr. Obama has said..." represents a statement of fact, which can be verified (or not). Obviously, this blogger realizes his readers won't require any more verification than if he'd said "I want a cheeseburger."

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King Jr.

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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2010 :  20:48:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hal.....

Everything is opinion now. You might have thought that the words "Mr. Obama has said..." represents a statement of fact, which can be verified (or not).

Hal, it is not a case of "might have thought". Dave is on recent record here with the unsupported declaration that "Opinion is fact statement"; despite abundant citations from dictionaries and the Wikipedia clearly defining the word "opinion" as only being statement of fact under certain circumstances. Several members of his SFN have dutifully parroted this nonsense, acknowledging that the Emperor indeed has no clothes.

Dave even stated at one point that the dictionary was wrong. Obviously, oracular proclamation takes precedence over accepted language authority references such as Webster's, compiled by mere mortals.

However, a word of caution. Pursue this philosophical line of enquiry at your own risk; that of being characterized as an "intellectual coward" or worse. It is highly likely that calumny of abundance will descend upon your head from Olympus. It is, of course, certain that I will be excoriated for this flagrant act of insubordination to Our Dear Leader.
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2010 :  20:58:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by Robb

Typical of progressives, their values are everchanging to match their agenda's.
Nice blanket statement. Sorta like looking at the Oklahoma City bombers and saying, "typical Christians."
I said typical not all. Where do progressives get their ideology?

Plenty of liberals criticized the "Betray Us" ad back when it was first published. And MoveOn.org doesn't have a lock on liberalism or progressivism.
Not President Obama or most of the democrates in power today critisized that ad.

Nor does it have a lock on stupid people who'll change their opinions as often as I change my socks. Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin (etc.) aren't liberals, but they're all guilty of the same thing you're complaining about. Where are your "typical of conservatives" posts when they do it, Robb?
So its ok for politicians and powerful groups to change their stance on things to benefit them in the moment because others do it too? Beck, Limbaugh and Palin care more about the power and money they make than their cause and so do most politicians.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2010 :  22:22:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Hal, it is not a case of "might have thought". Dave is on recent record here with the unsupported declaration that "Opinion is fact statement"; despite abundant citations from dictionaries and the Wikipedia clearly defining the word "opinion" as only being statement of fact under certain circumstances. Several members of his SFN have dutifully parroted this nonsense, acknowledging that the Emperor indeed has no clothes.

Dave even stated at one point that the dictionary was wrong. Obviously, oracular proclamation takes precedence over accepted language authority references such as Webster's, compiled by mere mortals.

However, a word of caution. Pursue this philosophical line of enquiry at your own risk; that of being characterized as an "intellectual coward" or worse. It is highly likely that calumny of abundance will descend upon your head from Olympus. It is, of course, certain that I will be excoriated for this flagrant act of insubordination to Our Dear Leader.
Welcome back, bngbuck. I see you're driving a whole truckload of grudge. If you'd really like to continue your old argument, I'm sure you can find the old thread.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 06/24/2010 :  22:38:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Robb

I said typical not all.
So did I. You think you're justified in claiming that the actions of MoveOn.org are "typical" of liberals. Why shouldn't I claim that the actions of the OK City bombers are "typical" of Christians?
Where do progressives get their ideology?
Not from MoveOn.org. I get mine through a combination of personal desires, critical thought and empiricism. Where do conservatives get their ideology?
Not President Obama or most of the democrates in power today critisized that ad.
That still doesn't mean that MoveOn.org's actions represent the norm of liberal morality. MoveOn.org represents fewer than 10% of voting Demoncrats, and so represents even fewer liberals.
So its ok for politicians and powerful groups to change their stance on things to benefit them in the moment because others do it too?
I wasn't making a tu quoque argument, I was instead pointing out your inconsistency, Robb. You can't dodge the issue by trying to criticize me for an argument I didn't make, however.
Beck, Limbaugh and Palin care more about the power and money they make than their cause and so do most politicians.
And you think that MoveOn.org is not a political organization with the same motives for what reason? You must think that they are motivated by some sort of universal progressive ideology instead of "power and money" for you to have smeared "typical" liberals with the actions of a minority of liberals, so why do you think that? Where is the evidence that typical liberals agree with what MoveOn.org has done?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Hal
Skeptic Friend

USA
302 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2010 :  07:16:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Hal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Hal.....

Everything is opinion now. You might have thought that the words "Mr. Obama has said..." represents a statement of fact, which can be verified (or not).

Hal, it is not a case of "might have thought". Dave is on recent record here with the unsupported declaration that "Opinion is fact statement"; despite abundant citations from dictionaries and the Wikipedia clearly defining the word "opinion" as only being statement of fact under certain circumstances. Several members of his SFN have dutifully parroted this nonsense, acknowledging that the Emperor indeed has no clothes.

Dave even stated at one point that the dictionary was wrong. Obviously, oracular proclamation takes precedence over accepted language authority references such as Webster's, compiled by mere mortals.

However, a word of caution. Pursue this philosophical line of enquiry at your own risk; that of being characterized as an "intellectual coward" or worse. It is highly likely that calumny of abundance will descend upon your head from Olympus. It is, of course, certain that I will be excoriated for this flagrant act of insubordination to Our Dear Leader.


Yes, I'm blessed with ignorance of this. The truth is, I was simply indulging in a small bit of sarcasm, directed primarily at the blogger who made the unsupported allegation. Dave seems pretty sensible to me, although I don't doubt that he gets one wrong from time-to-time, just like the rest of us.

/back to lurking!

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King Jr.

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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2010 :  07:47:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Where is the evidence that typical liberals agree with what MoveOn.org has done?
This is the best I have.

Self-identified liberals were evenly divided—45% approve and 39% disapprove.


Rasmussen Poll

I guess it's what your definition of typical is. But it is a fairly high percentage of liberals that supported that ad in 2007.



Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2010 :  08:00:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Robb

This is the best I have.
Self-identified liberals were evenly divided—45% approve and 39% disapprove.
Rasmussen PollI guess it's what your definition of typical is. But it is a fairly high percentage of liberals that supported that ad in 2007.
Less than half. And you think that an opinion shared by less than half (but a "fairly" large minority) of a group justifies calling it a "typical" opinion. Just what is your definition? If 45% is acceptable, what's the lowest percentage that could still be called "typical?"

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2010 :  17:41:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Less than half. And you think that an opinion shared by less than half (but a "fairly" large minority) of a group justifies calling it a "typical" opinion. Just what is your definition? If 45% is acceptable, what's the lowest percentage that could still be called "typical?"
Use the word typical or not I don't care. If 45% of Christians believed McVey was justified in what he did then I would at least think that there was a problem and as a Christian I would be obligated to counter those beliefs.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2010 :  18:56:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Robb

Originally posted by Dave W.

Less than half. And you think that an opinion shared by less than half (but a "fairly" large minority) of a group justifies calling it a "typical" opinion. Just what is your definition? If 45% is acceptable, what's the lowest percentage that could still be called "typical?"
Use the word typical or not I don't care. If 45% of Christians believed McVey was justified in what he did then I would at least think that there was a problem and as a Christian I would be obligated to counter those beliefs.

Jobs bill blocked in Senate

Of course, this headline should read; Conservatives Filibuster Jobs Bill, Again!

Typical of conservatives to not care about the people who need help the most. They are there for War, and they are there for their rich Oil pals, but in typical fashion, they once again filibustered a bill that would have extended unemployment insurance and given tax breaks to some small businesses. Drill baby drill!!

Typical Conservatives...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 06/25/2010 :  20:24:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Robb

Use the word typical or not I don't care.
You obviously care. You used the word and defended its use.
If 45% of Christians believed McVey was justified in what he did then I would at least think that there was a problem and as a Christian I would be obligated to counter those beliefs.
Sure, but you'd be trying to enlist the "McVeigh wasn't justified" Christians to help do such countering, instead of smearing them by complaining that "McVeigh was justified" is a typical Christian belief.

Even if the tactics of MoveOn.org were "typical" of liberals, do you really want to throw under the bus those 39% of liberals who disavow MoveOn.org, or would you rather they feel obligated to counter those beliefs?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 06/26/2010 :  01:18:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Robb

Not President Obama or most of the democrates in power today critisized that ad.
Complete bullshit, Robb!

From Wikipedia
On September 20, 2007, the Senate passed an amendment by Republican John Cornyn III of Texas designed to "strongly condemn personal attacks on the honor and integrity of General Petraeus". All forty-nine Republican Senators, as well as twenty-two Democratic Senators, voted in support. The House passed a similar resolution by a 341-79 vote on September 26, 2007.[23]

Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois, another contender for the Democratic nomination, did not vote, although he voted minutes earlier for an alternative resolution by Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif. That resolution condemned the MoveOn ad as an "unwarranted personal attack," but also condemned political attack ads that questioned the patriotism of Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., and former Sen. Max Cleland, D-Ga., both Vietnam veterans.

Source
As we see in the quote above, not all democratic senators who criticized the ad voted for the amendment.

"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones
Edited by - Starman on 06/26/2010 01:24:19
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