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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2010 :  06:30:37  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is disgusting. Down there in Australia, it seems that one Mary MacKillop, a deceased nun, is credited with saving the lives of two women when, after getting prayed to, put their cancers in remission. Touching, no? Anyhow, she is being saintilized or sanitized, or whatever Catholics do to glorify their more notable and defunct, pious frauds. Benny the Rat is doing this one and she will be St. Mary the Cross.

But still, it's a matter of context, isn't it?
Posted on: October 18, 2010 7:15 AM, by PZ Myers

Mary MacKillop has been officially canonized as an Australian saint on the basis of two purported miracle cures — two women reportedly dying of cancer had spontaneous remissions after praying to her. Adele Horin puts them in context.

At the time Mary MacKillop answered the prayers of a woman dying of leukaemia, there was a lot of static in the air. In China 43 million people were dying of starvation in one of the world's worst famines.

Thirty years later in the 1990s, when MacKillop answered the prayers of a woman dying of lung cancer, 3.8 million were dying in the Congo wars, 800,000 in the Rwanda genocide, a quarter of a million in the Yugoslav wars.

The connection between these two women praying for healing and the dead MacKillop was so tenuous to be nonexistent, while millions beg in vain for a reprieve from day-to-day misery. Praise the gods.

It is my understanding that Benny is soon to do the same for Pope Pius XII. I wonder what miracles he performed......




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2010 :  08:59:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
filthy:
It is my understanding that Benny is soon to do the same for Pope Pius XII. I wonder what miracles he performed......

No kidding. They need a couple of miracles. Like "Mary of the Cross," and cancer remission, as though that never happens without a "Mary" around. If they don't have miracles, they just make shit up. I suggest spoon bending for Pope Pius the XII. The prick...

What's odd is that Saints can be fired too. I'm pretty sure St Christopher was shit-canned and so was St. Patrick. I would look it up but I have to go to work.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2010 :  12:11:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not so much fired as semi-retired. The Church never really lets go.

St. Chris:
Saint Christopher (Greek: #902;#947;#953;#959;#962; #935;#961;#953;#963;#964;#972;#966;#959;#961;#959;#962;) is a saint venerated by Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians, listed as a martyr killed in the reign of the 3rd century Roman emperor Decius (reigned 249–251).

The Eastern Orthodox Church venerates Saint Christopher on May 9. The Tridentine Calendar allowed a commemoration of Saint Christopher on 25 July only in private Masses. This restriction was lifted later (see General Roman Calendar as in 1954). Although the Roman Catholic Church still approves devotion to him, listing him in the Roman Martyrology among the saints venerated on 25 July[1], Pope Paul VI removed his feast day from the Roman Catholic calendar of saints in his 1969 motu proprio Mysterii Paschalis. At that time the church declared that this commemoration was not of Roman tradition, in view of the relatively late date (about 1550) and limited manner in which it was accepted into the Roman calendar.[2]
Reputed to be the patron saint of truckers, airline customers, hitchhikers and drug mules among other traveling types. Someone to watch over the wanderers and the escapees.

And Patrick:
Saint Patrick (Latin: Patricius; Primitive Irish: *Qatrikias;[3][4] Old Irish: Cothraige or Coithrige;[5] Middle Irish: Pátraic; Irish: Pádraig; British: *Patrikios; Old Welsh: Patric; Middle Welsh: Padric; Welsh: Padrig; Old English: Patric; c. 387 – 17 March, 493)[6] was a Romano-Briton and Christian missionary, who is the most generally recognized patron saint of Ireland (although Brigid of Kildare and Colmcille are also formally patron saints).

Two authentic letters from him survive, from which come the only universally accepted details of his life. When he was about 14[7] he was captured from Britain by Irish raiders and taken as a slave to Ireland, where he lived for six years before escaping and returning to his family. After entering the Church, he returned to Ireland as an ordained bishop in the north and west of the island, but little is known about the places where he worked.

By the eighth century he had come to be revered as the patron saint of Ireland. The Irish monastery system evolved after the time of Patrick and the Irish church did not develop the diocesan model that Patrick and the other early missionaries had tried to establish.[citation needed]

Most available details of his life are from later hagiographies from the 7th century onwards, and these are now not accepted without detailed criticism. Uncritical acceptance of the Annals of Ulster would imply that he lived from 340 to 440, and ministered in what is modern day Northern Ireland from 428 onwards. The dates of Patrick's life cannot be fixed with certainty, but on a widespread interpretation he was active as a missionary in Ireland during the second half of the 5th century.[chronology source needed]Saint Patrick's Day (17 March), supposedly the day of his death, is celebrated both in and outside of Ireland, as both a liturgical and non-liturgical holiday. In the dioceses of Ireland it is both a solemnity and a holy day of obligation and outside of Ireland, it can be a celebration of Ireland itself.

In short, his day has become a modern excuse to party & drink to excess. He is reputed to have driven all the snakes out of Ireland, a foul deed indeed.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2010 :  22:43:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

. . .

He is reputed to have driven all the snakes out of Ireland, a foul deed indeed.
But wait: "Driven out," not exterminated. Some lucky locale ended up with extra snakes.

I think it was the Philippines.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2010 :  13:10:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Originally posted by filthy

. . .

He is reputed to have driven all the snakes out of Ireland, a foul deed indeed.
But wait: "Driven out," not exterminated. Some lucky locale ended up with extra snakes.

I think it was the Philippines.
Yes, most fortunate, those Filipinos. Ireland, on the other hand, got to keep the plague and hantavirus due to the lost rodent eaters. Sad, really, that they have mouse shit in their Cheerios.....




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2010 :  07:11:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well the Bible is clear who saints are. Saints are believers in Jesus Christ as their savior. There were saints in the Old Testament and the New Testament that predate the Catholic Church. It is not for the Catholic Church to determine saint status. I have never understood how the Catholic Church can read the Bible and then ignore what they just read.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2010 :  09:23:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yep only two types of people in the NT, Saints(believers) and Antichrists(nonbelievers)

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 10/22/2010 09:24:16
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2010 :  10:03:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

Yep only two types of people in the NT, Saints(believers) and Antichrists(nonbelievers)
You got it.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2010 :  14:30:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Robb

Well the Bible is clear who saints are. Saints are believers in Jesus Christ as their savior.
Oh, that's why my mother-in-law's sister told me, years ago, that she is a saint. I really didn't know, and thought she was being boastful. She told me that because she's a saint, when the final war between good and evil occurs she will be riding on a white horse, following Jesus himself into battle.

And, of course, she worries about my soul.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 10/22/2010 :  20:23:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by Robb

Well the Bible is clear who saints are. Saints are believers in Jesus Christ as their savior.
Oh, that's why my mother-in-law's sister told me, years ago, that she is a saint. I really didn't know, and thought she was being boastful. She told me that because she's a saint, when the final war between good and evil occurs she will be riding on a white horse, following Jesus himself into battle.

And, of course, she worries about my soul.
I don't know about the white horse. Anyway, the Catholic Church has co-opted the word saint and made it mean something it does not. A saint is not a good person or a hero or a perfect person. A saint is just someone that believes in Jesus as their savior. That's it.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2010 :  09:39:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Original_Intent a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm not one for bashing folks for their religion... But, man.. this one begs for it. My understanding:
The Catholics created saints as a conduit to the Trinity, and intercede on the Catholics behalf. They prey to all sorts of saints for all sorts of things. Me... I think that with their acceptance and tacit consent to the shit they have pulled all these long years... the Catholic needs all the help they can get.

But.. that's just me.

The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2010 :  07:42:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Robb

Well the Bible is clear who saints are. Saints are believers in Jesus Christ as their savior. There were saints in the Old Testament and the New Testament that predate the Catholic Church. It is not for the Catholic Church to determine saint status. I have never understood how the Catholic Church can read the Bible and then ignore what they just read.


I don't understand how anyone can read the bible and ignore what they just read. Because if you walk away from that reading a believer, you have ignored just about the entire thing.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2010 :  06:40:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

Originally posted by Robb

Well the Bible is clear who saints are. Saints are believers in Jesus Christ as their savior. There were saints in the Old Testament and the New Testament that predate the Catholic Church. It is not for the Catholic Church to determine saint status. I have never understood how the Catholic Church can read the Bible and then ignore what they just read.


I don't understand how anyone can read the bible and ignore what they just read. Because if you walk away from that reading a believer, you have ignored just about the entire thing.


Understood. But I think that believing it and changing what it says are different things. I can show you in the Bible where my beliefs come from, Catholics cannot support all their doctrine from the Bible such as priests, Mary was a perpetual virgin, sainthood, infant baptism etc.

On the belief part, I just read Age of Reason by Thomas Paine. He believed in a God but did not think any of the religions are true. When he critiques Christianity, his reasoning is sound and is correct that there is no reason to believe the Bible to be true.

He said about Christianity:
“…it is impossible to conceive a story more derogatory to the Almighty, more inconsistent with his wisdom, more contradictory to his power, than this story is…”

I get this, there is no evidence that a Christian can give to anybody to prove Jesus was the son of God and he died to forgive peoples sins. I know how some people think it to be ridiculous and absurd. But I think what Paine was missing was faith. His faith had to line up with his reason and I think that is why he could not accept anything other than a God that existed but could not be pinned down on what that god thought or wanted from anybody. Faith is in contradiction to reason and I understand why Paine and atheists/agnostics do not believe Christianity but in the end faith is required.

Dude, I know you have read the Bible and rejected it and that is probably the reasonable and sensible thing to do. I think the reason a lot of people believe it in the face of reason is that the Bible says you just need a little faith and God will increase it for you and they have experienced that in their lives or else >35% of the world’s population is crazy.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2010 :  07:28:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Robb

...or else >35% of the world’s population is crazy.
No, more than 90% of the world's population is willing to believe stuff for the flimsiest of reasons, including (but not limited to) promises that nobody ever has to keep (afterlife) and/or raw fear (of hell, or of simple uncertainty). Gullibility doesn't imply insanity.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 10/25/2010 :  23:25:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Robb said:
But I think that believing it and changing what it says are different things.

Robb, you change the bible just by reading it. The lense you view it through is vastly different than the one the writers of those words had. It has been translated, edited, and altered hundreds of times too. The interpretation you place on the words in that book is also an alteration. It's not like the thing comes with an author's companion book where the authors explained their intent. Then let us not forget that over the centuries people have gotten together on multiple occasions and decided what parts are important, what is real and not, what the thing means, and so on... none of those various meetings have had the same conclusion.

Then we can ask why only four gospels (the earliest written at least 50 years after the alleged death of jesus) are included. Why are there sych glaring differences between them? There are at least six more fully preserved gospels, more than 20 "lost" gospels, 12 or so partial gospels, and a handful of what is called "infancy" gospels. Why is none of that included?

Seriously, no amount of faith can allow you to believe that anything written in the bible is either true or accurate. I'll not get into the problems of an alleged omnipotent being birthing himself as a human and then killing himself in order to forgive me for something I did not do in the first place.....


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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