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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
 Posted - 01/04/2011 : 10:31:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Baxter
Yeah, Paul and Jan Crouch are mega-charlatans. And then you have Robert Tilton who almost makes an art form out of it.
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Speaking of Robert Tilton, have you read this Baxter?
Come & Receive your Miracle: A Sunday Afternoon at a Robert Tilton Crusade
I wrote this a couple of years ago and it's one of my best Kil Reports, if I do say so myself, which I am... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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JerryB
Skeptic Friend
279 Posts |
 Posted - 01/04/2011 : 12:13:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by Baxter
Yeah, Paul and Jan Crouch are mega-charlatans. And then you have Robert Tilton who almost makes an art form out of it.
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Speaking of Robert Tilton, have you read this Baxter?
Come & Receive your Miracle: A Sunday Afternoon at a Robert Tilton Crusade
I wrote this a couple of years ago and it's one of my best Kil Reports, if I do say so myself, which I am...
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It's a good read. |
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Baxter
Skeptic Friend
USA
131 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2011 : 12:27:06 [Permalink]
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Oh yes, I remember reading that. Very good read. I was also quite fond of watching Tilton. Funny and entertaining in an addicting way. I never got to see much of Gene Scott, but I've heard that he's a piece of work as well.
Of course, I would never send any of them a dime either. My dad knew a lady at church that gave money to Tilton and he tried to advise them not to do so. How someone could send Tilton money is something that is beyond my comprehension.
The huge moral problem with such con acts is that they pervert and take advantage of something as noble as charity. |
"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey
"We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know." ~Robert G. Ingersoll
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2011 : 13:49:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Baxter
filthy, by the way, what specifically do you think Ken Ham is lying about? Since you said "Lying to the unthinking portion of the public ain't cheap" in your OP.
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I've described ad tedium the misinformation Ham spreads around virtually all over the world. But let me put it this way: Let's say that, with all the best of intentions and firmly believing in what I was doing, I hauled out my shoot and blew someone away. Do you think that just because I believed that wasting that scoundrel was the best thing for society -- and I can think of a few that fit that catagory -- I should not be charged with 1st degree homecide?
Anyhow, here briefly, is Ham.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Baxter
Skeptic Friend
USA
131 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 09:53:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
I've described ad tedium the misinformation Ham spreads around virtually all over the world. But let me put it this way: Let's say that, with all the best of intentions and firmly believing in what I was doing, I hauled out my shoot and blew someone away. Do you think that just because I believed that wasting that scoundrel was the best thing for society -- and I can think of a few that fit that catagory -- I should not be charged with 1st degree homecide?
Anyhow, here briefly, is Ham.
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I know it's a semantic nitpick on my part. If someone makes a false statement, I simply say that they are wrong. I reserve the word "lie" for when someone makes a false statement even though they are aware of its falsity.
After all, we're all wrong sometimes. That doesn't mean we're being dishonest. The reason I think a lie and an untrue statement should be seen as different is because there is a huge moral difference between them (although the effect is the same).
I often see people on forums accusing others of lying. But most of the time it just boils down to a disagreement. An accusation of lying in such a case is probably an appeal to emotion. |
"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey
"We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know." ~Robert G. Ingersoll
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2011 : 12:55:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Baxter
Originally posted by filthy
I've described ad tedium the misinformation Ham spreads around virtually all over the world. But let me put it this way: Let's say that, with all the best of intentions and firmly believing in what I was doing, I hauled out my shoot and blew someone away. Do you think that just because I believed that wasting that scoundrel was the best thing for society -- and I can think of a few that fit that catagory -- I should not be charged with 1st degree homecide?
Anyhow, here briefly, is Ham.
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I know it's a semantic nitpick on my part. If someone makes a false statement, I simply say that they are wrong. I reserve the word "lie" for when someone makes a false statement even though they are aware of its falsity.
After all, we're all wrong sometimes. That doesn't mean we're being dishonest. The reason I think a lie and an untrue statement should be seen as different is because there is a huge moral difference between them (although the effect is the same).
I often see people on forums accusing others of lying. But most of the time it just boils down to a disagreement. An accusation of lying in such a case is probably an appeal to emotion.
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I agree, but in this case Ham, et al., has had all of the accurate information at his/their fingertips for decades. Indeed, they subscribe to the peer-reviewed journals Nature and Science, among others. An honest and sincere man would pay attention. So, why is he still feverently denying the known and accepted science in favor of magic ghost stories?
One pretty strong hypothesis is that there is just too much worldly gelt to be had from those who have not studied that science, and won't. AiG studies the science in order to make their apologetics more impressive, laregely through quote mining the papers, thereby hustling the afore-mentioned YECs.
I remind that the Creation abortion "museum" was built entirely from donated funds and, If I have gleaned the story correctly, AiG wasn't out of pocket a single, thin dime. This is one of their bragging points.
You don't have to function outside the law to be a crook and you don't have to tell the truth if you have a Bible to wave at the intellectually blind.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Alms for the poor......
