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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 12/31/2010 : 15:33:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Yes Robb, this is why I never brought it up to her. It's easy for me to irritate strangers but to hurt the feelings of loved ones is something I can't bring myself to do. Even though it is a weird thing for her to do there really has been no harm done to me. |
I understand this sentiment, not wanting to hurt a loved one. But--and I don't wish to come across as preachy here--our families are often the people we have the opportunity to influence most. They love you and know you best. You aren't an anonymous face on the internet they can write off as angry or depraved. It's not about converting them so much as making them aware that their religious views are not universally accepted. Much like people who know a loved one who is homosexual have a harder time being bigoted toward homosexuals as a group, religious people who know and respect an atheist in their own family are less likely to hold erroneous stereotypes or prejudices of atheists as a group. Change starts at home. Like I said, how you address the issue with your loved one is entirely up to you, but I would recommend against doing nothing. It may seem like a small thing and easy to let go, but ignoring presumptions of religious privilege often leads to greater conflict down the road. If you do love this person, then trust that they respect you enough to listen and accept what you have to say. Venting to us is all fine and good, but we aren't the ones who really need to hear it.
Anyway, just my two cents. Take it or leave it. I won't harp on this topic any more.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2010 : 15:57:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Yes Robb, this is why I never brought it up to her. It's easy for me to irritate strangers but to hurt the feelings of loved ones is something I can't bring myself to do. Even though it is a weird thing for her to do there really has been no harm done to me. |
I understand this sentiment, not wanting to hurt a loved one. But--and I don't wish to come across as preachy here--our families are often the people we have the opportunity to influence most. They love you and know you best. You aren't an anonymous face on the internet they can write off as angry or depraved. It's not about converting them so much as making them aware that their religious views are not universally accepted. Much like people who know a loved one who is homosexual have a harder time being bigoted toward homosexuals as a group, religious people who know and respect an atheist in their own family are less likely to hold erroneous stereotypes or prejudices of atheists as a group. Change starts at home. Like I said, how you address the issue with your loved one is entirely up to you, but I would recommend against doing nothing. It may seem like a small thing and easy to let go, but ignoring presumptions of religious privilege often leads to greater conflict down the road. If you do love this person, then trust that they respect you enough to listen and accept what you have to say. Venting to us is all fine and good, but we aren't the ones who really need to hear it.
Anyway, just my two cents. Take it or leave it. I won't harp on this topic any more.
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I agree with your point about change starting at home. It just takes some courage to implement it. I do not view you as harping on this subject. You are making very valid points.
(unrelated comment) I am very excited because I am posting for the first time using my new Velocity Micro Cruz Reader. It works good. Now I can post even while sitting on the throne!
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Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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podcat
Skeptic Friend
435 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2010 : 23:16:16 [Permalink]
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| TMI, Ebone. :P |
“In a modern...society, everybody has the absolute right to believe whatever they damn well please, but they don't have the same right to be taken seriously”.
-Barry Williams, co-founder, Australian Skeptics |
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Smithford
New Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2011 : 12:32:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
]I don't understand this attitude. |
I have a sense that we are talking about an older woman. Most likely her community is the organization she is contributing to. She may feel a social/moral obligation to donate to this organization. And she may be short of money. Combining both is an old-world way of thinking. By doing so she is saving face, saving money, and making a difference in the community (or one of the communities) in which she exists.
I'm curious, though, why it is bothering you so much. It is her money, her choice. Is it that you want the money to be sent your way? Or is it a personal branding issue?
I, personally, wouldn't want my name linked to the KKK as a volunteer or a donator. (It would take a lot for me to let that happen.) But I don't consider that a matter of personal branding/platforming/politics - I consider that a matter of safety. I don't know who has access to the KKK volunteer/donation lists. My fear of someone getting a hold of that list and going after the people is pretty high.
As I came into the conversation late I'm curious as to how this turned out for you.
Sammantha
018 - Happy 1st Anniversary & Kudos to Amateur Skeptics
www.skepticsabsinthe.blogspot.com |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2011 : 13:59:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Smithford
Originally posted by H. Humbert
]I don't understand this attitude. |
I have a sense that we are talking about an older woman. Most likely her community is the organization she is contributing to. She may feel a social/moral obligation to donate to this organization. And she may be short of money. Combining both is an old-world way of thinking. By doing so she is saving face, saving money, and making a difference in the community (or one of the communities) in which she exists.
I'm curious, though, why it is bothering you so much. It is her money, her choice. Is it that you want the money to be sent your way? Or is it a personal branding issue?
I, personally, wouldn't want my name linked to the KKK as a volunteer or a donator. (It would take a lot for me to let that happen.) But I don't consider that a matter of personal branding/platforming/politics - I consider that a matter of safety. I don't know who has access to the KKK volunteer/donation lists. My fear of someone getting a hold of that list and going after the people is pretty high.
As I came into the conversation late I'm curious as to how this turned out for you.
Sammantha
018 - Happy 1st Anniversary & Kudos to Amateur Skeptics
www.skepticsabsinthe.blogspot.com
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You are making many incorrect assumptions. She is not what I would consider older (which to me means elderly). It is not a local organization. It is an international organization. This year her money went towards purchasing two chickens for some children I guess. She is not short of money. This charitable gift is in addition to the very generous gifts that she and my father-in-law give to my wife and me.
It doesn't really bother me as much as it just seems such a weird "gift" to give. I understand that it is her money but she is making a donation to a religious organization under MY name so I guess it would be a "branding" issue.
How did it turn out? There was nothing to turn out. I haven't mentioned anything to anyone about it except for here on SFN. I'm sure it will happen again next year. this issue isn't important enough for me to cause a family conflict but it does bug me enough to bitch about it to my invisipeeps. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Smithford
New Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2011 : 14:50:28 [Permalink]
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I like being an invisipeep!
It's not something we truly hear of a lot in the USA. But I have seen it mentioned in personal journals dating around WWII and in historical books earlier mentioning timespanns earlier than that. As a kid in Missouri and a Kid in New Mexico I had older neighbors who practiced such giving. They were quiet people, immigrants. There are years between the neighbors who had the practice of charity 'in name of' giving and the Seinfeld episode on the subjet. I personally believe the Seinfeld episode (Festivus?) brought it from a quiet background to public consumption. (Don't have any data to back that up.)
Also wondering now how much of this is tithing behavior. Nobody in my immediate circle of friends practices tithing. Again, had neighbors that did when I was a kid. Definately a differerent mindset.
I think it's cool you made an active decision to keep family peace. Too many skeptics use skepticism as a battering ram. It's nice to see the skepticism acknowledge, but set aside in favor of a buffering cloth.
Hope you are having a great day!
Sammantha
018 - Happy Anniversary & Kudos to Amateur Skeptics
www.skepticsabsinthe.blogspot.com
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Skeptic's Absinthe www.skepticsabsinthe.blogspot.com
Paramour is Unrelated www.fordsparamours.blogspot.com |
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Odd gifts
