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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2011 :  22:02:27  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Does anyone know if there are any references or examples that show using live animals for burn research has lead to significant burn treatment for humans? I could not find much on the net but I am not very knowledgable on the subject. Thanks.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington

Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2011 :  22:04:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I meant to put this in the health folder.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2011 :  23:46:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Robb

I meant to put this in the health folder.
Now it is.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2011 :  23:47:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Robb

Does anyone know if there are any references or examples that show using live animals for burn research has lead to significant burn treatment for humans? I could not find much on the net but I am not very knowledgable on the subject. Thanks.

Not my area of concentration, but I will go out on a limb and say yes. Animal models are used extensively in burn research, apparently.

http://journals.lww.com/burncareresearch/pages/results.aspx?k=animal%20model&Scope=AllIssues&txtKeywords=animal%20model

That is one burn journal and those are the results of recent studies using animal models.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2011 :  00:25:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude
That is one burn journal and those are the results of recent studies using animal models.
Man, I know these studies lead to treatments to help people, and I am an avowed carnivore that sees no moral issue with using an animal for its parts, but some of these titles sound gruesome. For example: "Healing of Mid-Dermal Burns in a Diabetic Porcine Model." They gave a pig diabetes and then gave it second degree burns? Damn. But I'm sure any ethical study would ensure that the pig was somehow medicated for pain. At least I hope so.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2011 :  11:22:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by H. Humbert

Originally posted by Dude
That is one burn journal and those are the results of recent studies using animal models.
Man, I know these studies lead to treatments to help people, and I am an avowed carnivore that sees no moral issue with using an animal for its parts, but some of these titles sound gruesome. For example: "Healing of Mid-Dermal Burns in a Diabetic Porcine Model." They gave a pig diabetes and then gave it second degree burns? Damn. But I'm sure any ethical study would ensure that the pig was somehow medicated for pain. At least I hope so.



After reading some more... in the 40s they just took a blowtorch to the pig, apparently, no sedation or anesthetic. These days I am reasonably confident that any animal used in burn studies is given sedation and a high dose of local anasthetic. I have no direct experience with animal models outside of worms and mice, and none involving injury (except putting worms in a blender, and I'm confident they don't feel pain), but I don't think any lab today is going to just torch a pig without eliminating the pain.

Pigs, interestingly, are a good burn model because their skin closely resembles human skin (in terms of structure).




Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2011 :  20:54:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Robb.....

Thank you for your post and your concern.

Bill
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