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alienist
Skeptic Friend
USA
210 Posts |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
 Posted - 03/19/2011 : 06:11:53 [Permalink]
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From the first link:
| The original version of the bill also made it a third-degree felony for doctors and nurses to refuse treatment to patients who won’t answer questions about gun ownership or to enter – even accidentally – information about firearms into patients’ medical records. |
This is the only part that remotely makes sense to me. I can't find many reasons for a doctor to ask questions about gun ownership or accessability to guns. But registering the answers, or refusing to treat someone who refuse to answer...
Ok, I can see why a psychiatrist wants to know if a patient (who is potentially unstable) have a access to a gun, and may refuse treatment depending on the answer. It's for personal safety for starters, and that of 3rd persons.
Can someone explain how all this fits together, because I don't understand this obsession with guns that seems to saturate American culture.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
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"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2011 : 06:28:57 [Permalink]
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I don't understand it either, even though I'm part of it.
Some years back, I was down at the VA for another problem (hip replacement workup), and was in the middle of a bout of depression. I mentioed it and was asked if I own any firearms. I replied in the affirmative and was told that it might be a good idea to get rid of them. I was still shooting a little match at the time and that wasn't gonna happen.
And, as far as I know, that was the end of it; a mere scribble in my confidential medical record.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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alienist
Skeptic Friend
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2011 : 06:38:43 [Permalink]
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There is some concern among gun owners that if it is recorded, the insurance co will raise their premiums. The new health care law prevents this from happening.
Psychiatrists and pediatricians definitely need to know about guns in the house. Parents don't realize how clever children really are. I suspect my 3 year old knows a whole lot more than he is letting on.
I don't know why the pediatrician in Fl refused to see the child and his/her parents. It was probably more than just the parents refusing to say if they had a gun or not. If they were assholes, it may have been a good excuse to get rid of them. Actually it is a bad excuse. the doctor could have just assumed they had a gun and educate them about gun safety.
There is also a knee jerk reaction among some gun owners and the NRA that the government is going to take away their precious guns. There is also an overrated belief that a gun will protect them against a crime. |
The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well! - Joe Ancis |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2011 : 22:22:04 [Permalink]
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Mabuse.....
One pretty good theory about the pervasive obsession with guns in the United States is summed up in one word - Hollywood. Over many years, the combination of Western movies and crime movies, permanently installed a fascination with guns and killing into American pop culture.
I was badly infected with the virus until about age fifty. I have never hunted, and almost all of my life I have been viscerally repulsed by hunting and cruelty of any sort to animals of any sort.
But I became fascinated by guns of all kinds, and eventually amassed a $50K+ collection.
Hunting rifles, some never fired. Many, many handguns. Some exotics, such as a Thompson .45 caliber submachine gun with drum magazine and front pistol grip. I had well over fifty pieces.
I adored the little (and some larger) machines as beautiful gadgets - precise and perfection in performance. I went target shooting a great deal and became something of a marksman. Some of my collection was illegal, even tho' at the time I had a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Federal Dealers License. I never sold guns, I just collected,
One day, my wife for whom I have profound respect, said she wanted to talk to me. She told me she wanted me to sell the guns. All of them.
I asked her why. She said it was an mentally unhealthy preoccupation and she wanted me to disassociate completely from the gun culture.
I thought for weeks. Gloria did not often ask me to do something that I did not want to do.
I sold all the guns. I got about what I had paid for them wholesale. The Tommy gun was the hardest to sell. I finally succeeded. I missed them almost as much as a missing pet. Eventually, I got over it. Today I have a distaste for guns, I approve of ever-tougher gun laws, and I think there are a lot of sick puppies in the USA. Especially up here in Idaho, where every Republican lumberjack has a virtual arsenal.
Compared to Sweden, Mabuse, the good old USA has a lot of good old boys. Most of them are idiots. It is a rare woman that collects guns.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2011 : 06:03:54 [Permalink]
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On a related matter, it seems that Utah has now an official, state gun. It's asinine I know, but nevertheless I must approve of their tastes in firearms.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2011 : 08:57:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
I was still shooting a little match at the time and that wasn't gonna happen. |
And why should it? Having a hobby is one of the things that keeps us sane, and if that was yours then you would probably be more emotionally stable if allowed to continue pursuing it. But some bureaucrats wouldn't understand such things.
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Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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Stephanie324
New Member
USA
1 Post |
Posted - 03/29/2011 : 07:59:35 [Permalink]
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Very recently, I was asked by a doctor if I was carrying a weapon. I was horrified. First, I am a very passive person and give no reason for someone to think I might become aggressive. I don't own a gun, but it was not this doctor's business. Second, she revealed a conflict she had with my husband when he went to her office over a year ago. None of this had anything to do with the reason I was referred to this doctor.
The question was asked to manipulate me and throw me off track. I genuinely distrust anyone who would ask such a question. If a doctor feels I am that much of a threat, then I would prefer s/he refuse treatment. In this case, the doctor kept talking and every time I tried to leave there was more discussion. I finally stood up and used the legs I have to get out of there as quickly as possible.
This was also a doctor who felt she should call my primary care physician in lieu of my calling her. My response was that my doctor did not have limits on my calling her.
By the time I reached the car, I was overwhelmed and not in any shape to drive. I felt like I had just been booked for a crime. If this is the tone of doctors asking about guns, then I wholeheartedly support banning their ability to do so.
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Stephanie |
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alienist
Skeptic Friend
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2011 : 19:58:33 [Permalink]
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I brought up the topic because I think the Fla legislature is over-reaching. If a doctor is tactless or obnoxious, the patient can just leave. Patients of course should feel free to find another doctor
However, if a patient is suicidal or homicidal, then it is important to know if that person has a gun. the FL legislature shouldn't be making it harder for doctors to ask these questions in certain situations. Serious mental illnesses can be just as deadly as cancer or a heart attack. If a patient has a gun, I suggest it be removed temporarily until the patient is better.
Pediatricians need to know if there is a gun in the huose to educate parents about gun safety. Many parents don't realize how easy it is for a child to find guns in the house.
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The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well! - Joe Ancis |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2011 : 07:27:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Stephanie324
Very recently, I was asked by a doctor if I was carrying a weapon. I was horrified. First, I am a very passive person and give no reason for someone to think I might become aggressive. I don't own a gun, but it was not this doctor's business. Second, she revealed a conflict she had with my husband when he went to her office over a year ago. None of this had anything to do with the reason I was referred to this doctor.
The question was asked to manipulate me and throw me off track. I genuinely distrust anyone who would ask such a question. If a doctor feels I am that much of a threat, then I would prefer s/he refuse treatment. In this case, the doctor kept talking and every time I tried to leave there was more discussion. I finally stood up and used the legs I have to get out of there as quickly as possible.
This was also a doctor who felt she should call my primary care physician in lieu of my calling her. My response was that my doctor did not have limits on my calling her.
By the time I reached the car, I was overwhelmed and not in any shape to drive. I felt like I had just been booked for a crime. If this is the tone of doctors asking about guns, then I wholeheartedly support banning their ability to do so.
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There are hundreds of doctors in the phone book, and you did the right thing there. If your doc is an ass, fire them! Getting a new one just takes a phone call.
But banning the question alltogether.... alienist has the right of it I think. There are some legitimate reasons to ask those kinds of questions. Just the general protection of free speech is reason enough IMO, no one has the right to limit my ability to ask questions and everyone has the right to refuse to answer. But when you consider potentially suicidal or mentally ill patients, or children in the home, then a doctor not only has the right to ask those questions, but it seems they have a responsibility to ask them.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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FL guns and doctors
