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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2557 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2011 :  12:00:36  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Remember that sociopathic fucker who felt more sympathy for the ancient Isreali soldiers who did the killings rather than for the women and children they killed?

Well, now he's come out with his views on the Japanese disaster.

(Ironic, isn't it? That the guy who claims that "Atheism cannot justify morality" would hold those views, eh?

How in hell can one call this "absolute morality"?
So the problem isn’t that God ended the Canaanites’ lives. The problem is that He commanded the Israeli soldiers to end them. Isn’t that like commanding someone to commit murder? No, it’s not. Rather, since our moral duties are determined by God’s commands, it is commanding someone to do something which, in the absence of a divine command, would have been murder. The act was morally obligatory for the Israeli soldiers in virtue of God’s command, even though, had they undertaken it on their on initiative, it would have been wrong.


It's not the action itself, but who commands it which determines the "morality"? If the action itself, and it's attending consequences does not determine whether it's moral or not, then there is no such damned thing.

What he's describing in the below paragraph is an amoral being, not a "just", "perfect", "righteous" one.

Since God doesn’t issue commands to Himself, He has no moral duties to fulfill. He is certainly not subject to the same moral obligations and prohibitions that we are. For example, I have no right to take an innocent life. For me to do so would be murder. But God has no such prohibition. He can give and take life as He chooses. We all recognize this when we accuse some authority who presumes to take life as “playing God.” Human authorities arrogate to themselves rights which belong only to God. God is under no obligation whatsoever to extend my life for another second. If He wanted to strike me dead right now, that’s His prerogative.


Isn't there some verse that says for us to "be perfect even as god is perfect"?

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.

Edited by - the_ignored on 03/22/2011 12:14:20

podcat
Skeptic Friend

435 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2011 :  12:44:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send podcat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Shoulda read the fine print in the contract, ig:

"The management reserves the right to change terms of contract any time He sees fit. Furthermore, any changes are automatically assumed as accepted without question, discussion, or debate".

“In a modern...society, everybody has the absolute right to believe whatever they damn well please, but they don't have the same right to be taken seriously”.

-Barry Williams, co-founder, Australian Skeptics
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AyameTan
New Member

Japan
36 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2011 :  19:09:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send AyameTan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks, the_ignored. drcraigvideos doesn't seem to have the mental capacity to do anything other than fellate his mentor and hero, and repeat his lies and platitudes.

WLC can't even see that suffering is objectively bad by definition. Dictionary.com highlights this; the example they use is "suffering of the slaves."

You can see that during his debate with Louise Antony:

Part 1: http://www.rfmedia.org/av/video/is-god-necessary-for-morality-craig-vs-antony-1/

Part 2: http://www.rfmedia.org/av/video/is-god-necessary-for-morality-craig-vs-antony-2/

"Tatti hitori no inochi wo sukuu mono wa zensekai wo sukuu."
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2557 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2011 :  23:22:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hah! Ah, thanks, AyameTan!

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9675 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2011 :  08:01:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
AyameTan, welcome to Skeptic Friends Network!

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2011 :  18:27:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome to SFN, Ayame Tan. How are things in your part of Japan?

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Baxter
Skeptic Friend

USA
131 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2011 :  19:35:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Baxter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Poor WLC, he's an intelligent guy, but he's stuck in the odd position of rationalizing genocide.

"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey

"We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know." ~Robert G. Ingersoll
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AyameTan
New Member

Japan
36 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2011 :  21:19:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send AyameTan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the welcome, everyone. I'm luckily in Singapore right now, so my family and I are fine. We left Tokyo about a week before the disaster.

You can also find extreme right-wing Christians rationalising genocide, like Lee Strobel in The Case for Faith.

http://www.caseagainstfaith.com/critique-of-lee-strobels-the-case-for-faith.html

My, what a generous peace offer: "Be our slaves or die." God actually orders slavery! It's little wonder that Geisler omits this part of God's "rules of conduct." Though Geisler repeatedly claims that God is always ready to spare the just, as when He spared Lot, no such condition is given in the Deuteronomy passage above. Rather, God simply tells the Israelites that if this "peace" offer is rejected, kill everybody.

On the slaughter of innocent women and children, Geisler adds: "Consider this: most of the women and children would have fled in advance before the actual fighting began" (p. 122). So "tough luck" for the remainder who didn't abandon their homes and run for their lives--including those forced to stay behind because of poor health or disability? Besides, these passages don't seem to indicate a shortage of women and children. In fact, in Numbers Moses was enraged that his men didn't kill the women and children and orders them to go back and finish the job! It's fortunate that Geisler has clarified God's mercy here...



"Tatti hitori no inochi wo sukuu mono wa zensekai wo sukuu."
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alienist
Skeptic Friend

USA
210 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2011 :  09:04:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send alienist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To Baxter:
Are you really saying you have sympathy for WLC? I read his writings on the justification of killing all Canaanites and the man is horrible. He uses any argument to hang onto his beliefs. He even says god was right to kill Canaanite children because they would corrupt the Israelites. Then he goes on to say to complain about Muslims saying that their god only loves Muslims. This is his warped way of trying to say he is superior to others because he is christian. WLC is sick

The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well! - Joe Ancis
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AyameTan
New Member

Japan
36 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2011 :  05:58:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send AyameTan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by alienist

To Baxter:
Are you really saying you have sympathy for WLC? I read his writings on the justification of killing all Canaanites and the man is horrible. He uses any argument to hang onto his beliefs. He even says god was right to kill Canaanite children because they would corrupt the Israelites. Then he goes on to say to complain about Muslims saying that their god only loves Muslims. This is his warped way of trying to say he is superior to others because he is christian. WLC is sick


I couldn't agree more. WLC chose to be a callous dick with no compassion whatsoever.

Even a spiritual/psychological electron microscope couldn't find any.

"Tatti hitori no inochi wo sukuu mono wa zensekai wo sukuu."
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2557 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2011 :  07:16:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And yet, when it comes to the taking of the virgin Midianite women, who would have been older than the Canaanite children and thus would have more motive and more ability to "corrupt" the ancient Isrealites, well of course, they were spared!

It's all just situational ethics or pehaps "evolving morality": back then everyone had to be brutal to survive. As the ability to farm, raise animals and take care of themselves improved, there was less reason for civilizations to act like that, and knowing that no one likes that shit to be done to them, eventually those actions were made illegal.

Problem is: This "god" was worshipped way back then is also still worshipped now. It's a tenet of the religion that this god is morally perfect and unchangeable.

So, those berks who consider themselves "pro-life" find themselves defending fucking genocide of children so long as it's done by their deities.

I remember Sarfati posting as "Socrates" on Theology Web talking about abortion as "baby butchery", yet on Bill's "Culture Watch" site, when someone was complaining about these OT acts of genocide, Sarfati asked her if she was "squeamish".

And that fucker believes himself to be "pro-life".

Only religion can make someone so blind.

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
Edited by - the_ignored on 03/27/2011 07:17:19
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The Ape Hunter
New Member

1 Post

Posted - 03/27/2011 :  20:07:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send The Ape Hunter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
God had told Abraham in advance that he was going to make a nation from his seed & that he was going to establish them in the land of Canaan. This gave Satan the opportunity to counter God's plan with an attempt to thwart it. Thus, Satan filled the land with giants.

The manner in which giants are produced is from the fallen angels introducing their own genetics into mankind's genetics. We humans possess "freewill" & can do both, right & wrong. However, having fallen angel genetics dictates that only wrong be done. Giants were inherently evil.

Within all regions of the world, there exist cultures, having a long enough history, that give account of giants & their description of them are consistent with one another. The Bible records that giants often had 6 digits on their hands & feet. Certain Native American tribes tell of men that were 3 times the height of normal men & that were so swift that they ran next to buffalo herds & grabbed a Bison with 1 hand while ripping off a leg with the other & ate it while still running beside the herd.

The Indian greeting that we've come to know of holding up 1 hand while saying "how", is actually a custom that Natives developed when strangers approached one another that enabled each to view the others hand, making it possible to count the digits... if 6 fingers were counted, he was a foe of man

Most of us have seen the Southwestern, Native American cave drawings which depict individuals having extremely long bodies between the upper & lower limbs. That was a clever way to depict giants without the use of a reference scale

Atheists have made much commotion about the Israelite killing of the Canaanites. I like to inform Atheists of that if time machines existed & we could send 1 Atheist observer per journey, for 2-4 weeks to the land of Canaan, prior to the Israelite invasion... there would be a Psychological ICU waiting for him when he gets back. Atheists have no clue of how fortunate we have been to live in Western societies after Christianity was released upon the world... its very pleasant & easy upon the mind

In today's world, Satanists go through a gradual desensitization process prior to engaging in the most gruesome of their rituals (they incrementally escalate). But I'm quite certain that even their worst, bloodiest scenes are like cartoons compared to when Satanism was the publicly open, popular culture of the Canaanite populations which were hybridized with fallen angel genetics

As Joshua & the Israelites slowly progressed northward through the land of Canaan, word of their victories over several kings (giants) preceded them in reaching the Phoenicians... the maritime merchants of the ancient world. Many Phoenicians escaped by sea, sailing south into Egypt where they found refuge amongst their fellow Pagans

Gradually, in time, the Phoenicians made their way across North Africa, founding the civilizations that exist to this day... eventually reaching the Atlantic & founding what is today, Morocco. The Moors/Berbers sailed the high seas, across the Atlantic in 1200 - 1100 b.c... discovering the New World. During the years in which they mined & traded Copper from the Wisconsin area, some settled the huge expanses of un-staked lands

This explains why the early Spanish explorers after Columbus, found & recorded some African Negroes living amongst the Canaanite stock Native Americans(Blacks, perhaps Dogons, integrated into Moorish culture - Olmec heads). Eventually, the Native American/Canaanites made their way down to Mexico & became the Maya & Aztecs whom still retained the Pagan/Satanic human sacrifice elements of their Canaanite culture

That gruesome human sacrifice in Mexico (show the victim his heart) serves to show a portion of the culture that existed in the land of Canaan. Today, Psychologists explain that serial killers cannot be corrected. In ancient times, God ordered that they be subjected to Capital Punishment for the sake of the rest of humanity
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2011 :  20:26:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ummmm... Oh well. Never mind. I just can't do this. Welcome to SFN ,The Ape Hunter. And good luck...


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2011 :  20:33:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome to the Skeptic Friends Network.
Originally posted by The Ape Hunter

God had told Abraham in advance that he was going to make a nation from his seed & that he was going to establish them in the land of Canaan.
Do you have any non-Biblical evidence for the existence of God?
This gave Satan the opportunity to counter God's plan with an attempt to thwart it. Thus, Satan filled the land with giants.
Since Satan was never human, Satan never had free will. Why did God create Satan if God knew that Satan would "counter God's plan?"
The manner in which giants are produced is from the fallen angels introducing their own genetics into mankind's genetics.
Evidence?
We humans possess "freewill" & can do both, right & wrong. However, having fallen angel genetics dictates that only wrong be done. Giants were inherently evil.
This seems like nothing more than an evidence-free assertion to justify bigotry.
Within all regions of the world, there exist cultures, having a long enough history, that give account of giants & their description of them are consistent with one another. The Bible records that giants often had 6 digits on their hands & feet. Certain Native American tribes tell of men that were 3 times the height of normal men & that were so swift that they ran next to buffalo herds & grabbed a Bison with 1 hand while ripping off a leg with the other & ate it while still running beside the herd.
Well, those two examples aren't consistent with each other.
The Indian greeting that we've come to know of holding up 1 hand while saying "how", is actually...
A stupid Hollywood stereotype.
...a custom that Natives developed when strangers approached one another that enabled each to view the others hand, making it possible to count the digits... if 6 fingers were counted, he was a foe of man
Where is the evidence from Native American histories that show this to be true?
Most of us have seen the Southwestern, Native American cave drawings which depict individuals having extremely long bodies between the upper & lower limbs. That was a clever way to depict giants without the use of a reference scale
Evidence?
Atheists have made much commotion about the Israelite killing of the Canaanites. I like to inform Atheists of that if time machines existed & we could send 1 Atheist observer per journey, for 2-4 weeks to the land of Canaan, prior to the Israelite invasion... there would be a Psychological ICU waiting for him when he gets back.
Evidence?
Atheists have no clue of how fortunate we have been to live in Western societies after Christianity was released upon the world... its very pleasant & easy upon the mind
Lots of things that are false can be "pleasant & easy on the mind."
In today's world, Satanists go through a gradual desensitization process prior to engaging in the most gruesome of their rituals (they incrementally escalate).
Do you have evidence that these "Satanists" even exist?
But I'm quite certain that even their worst, bloodiest scenes are like cartoons compared to when Satanism was the publicly open, popular culture of the Canaanite populations which were hybridized with fallen angel genetics
Is Satan's name associated with the Canaanites even in the Bible?
As Joshua & the Israelites slowly progressed northward through the land of Canaan, word of their victories over several kings (giants)...
Wait, now "kings" is a synonym for "giants?"
...preceded them in reaching the Phoenicians... the maritime merchants of the ancient world. Many Phoenicians escaped by sea, sailing south into Egypt where they found refuge amongst their fellow Pagans
There were no Pagans-with-a-capital-P prior to fifty or sixty years ago.
Gradually, in time, the Phoenicians made their way across North Africa, founding the civilizations that exist to this day...
Wait, civilizations that pre-date all events in the Bible were actually founded by Phoenicians fleeing Joshua's army?!
...eventually reaching the Atlantic & founding what is today, Morocco. The Moors/Berbers sailed the high seas, across the Atlantic in 1200 - 1100 b.c... discovering the New World. During the years in which they mined & traded Copper from the Wisconsin area, some settled the huge expanses of un-staked lands
Evidence for any of this?
This explains why the early Spanish explorers after Columbus, found & recorded some African Negroes living amongst...
In what recordings of Columbus himself can we read of this?
...the Canaanite stock Native Americans(Blacks, perhaps Dogons, integrated into Moorish culture - Olmec heads). Eventually, the Native American/Canaanites made their way down to Mexico & became the Maya & Aztecs whom still retained the Pagan/Satanic human sacrifice elements of their Canaanite culture
This is getting completely unreal.
That gruesome human sacrifice in Mexico (show the victim his heart)...
Did that ever happen in real life?
...serves to show a portion of the culture that existed in the land of Canaan.
Only if you've got evidence for your claims, above?
Today, Psychologists explain that serial killers cannot be corrected.
Name one.
In ancient times, God ordered that they be subjected to Capital Punishment for the sake of the rest of humanity
Please cite chapter-and-verse in the Bible for evidence of this claim, at least.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1884 Posts

Posted - 03/28/2011 :  05:21:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by The Ape Hunter

... Today, Psychologists explain that serial killers cannot be corrected. In ancient times, God ordered that they be subjected to Capital Punishment for the sake of the rest of humanity
If there is a non-biblical source for any thing that you have written I would really enjoy reading it.

edited to add "non-biblical" have already read and re-read much of that.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
Edited by - moakley on 03/28/2011 05:24:11
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Baxter
Skeptic Friend

USA
131 Posts

Posted - 03/28/2011 :  13:46:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Baxter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by alienist

To Baxter:
Are you really saying you have sympathy for WLC? I read his writings on the justification of killing all Canaanites and the man is horrible. He uses any argument to hang onto his beliefs. He even says god was right to kill Canaanite children because they would corrupt the Israelites. Then he goes on to say to complain about Muslims saying that their god only loves Muslims. This is his warped way of trying to say he is superior to others because he is christian. WLC is sick
I bet WLC is a great guy. Sure, his evangelical beliefs cause him to try to defend the indefensible. We all tend to use arguments that bolster our beliefs.

But I'm not sure why you think he is trying to say he's superior.

"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey

"We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know." ~Robert G. Ingersoll
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