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alienist
Skeptic Friend
USA
210 Posts |
 Posted - 05/04/2011 : 18:03:02 [Permalink]
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| I did see Bernie Sanders on the Daily Show last week. I was glad to hear him criticize the tax breaks for the rich. |
The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well! - Joe Ancis |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 08:16:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by alienist
I did see Bernie Sanders on the Daily Show last week. I was glad to hear him criticize the tax breaks for the rich.
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Check this out
Take note Fripp, no GOP bias from me. I call them as I see them. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 05/05/2011 13:07:37 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 11:18:35 [Permalink]
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| Who cares what Obama's personal beliefs are? Not like we can ever know. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 13:08:24 [Permalink]
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Let's see if gas goes down as fast as it comes up. Somehow I doubt that it will.
crude oil tumbles
They have us in a catch 22. If the economy shows good signs the speculators drive up the cost of crude oil. If we the people want the price of oil to fall we have to hope for signs that the economy is in decline. Nice.
Notice how oil falls even as "unrest in the middle east" is ratcheted up with the assassination of OBL and Gaddaffi still shelling the hell out of the rebels, proving that "unrest in the ME" had little or nothing to with the rise in crude prices, as we were told. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 18:55:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
...proving that "unrest in the ME" had little or nothing to with the rise in crude prices, as we were told.
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It has very little to do with the accessability of oil, as in the Market Economy(tm) mantra "supply-and-demand". But rather: speculation. Unrest in the Middle-East is used as an excuse to speculate in commodity.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 04:58:19 [Permalink]
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Crash
Notice it says,
"Additional pressure came from news OPEC was considering raising formal output limits when it meets in June to convince oil markets it wants to bring prices down and reverse the impact of fuel inflation on economic growth."
I think it's the hedge funds who get rich when oil is $110/barrel and not OPEC. OPEC gets rich from selling lots of oil. With gas at $4.29 they see demand falling. To get demand back up they want to see the price back down where people can afford a lot of it. There has been unrest in the ME for thousands of years so they need to give that a break. This $4.29 was caused by speculators buying up all the available oil and it needs to be regulated. It's not good for the economy at all. Just ask Warren Buffet.
Now let's see how fast gas starts coming down. When crude rises during the day when I leave for work or by the next morning at the latest gas already has went up. It plunged over $10 a barrel yesterday and gas ain't moved one iota here, yet. I guess they call that the lag effect. Funny how there in no "lag" effect for rising prices. OK done ranting.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 05:26:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
I think it's the hedge funds who get rich when oil is $110/barrel and not OPEC. OPEC gets rich from selling lots of oil. With gas at $4.29 they see demand falling. To get demand back up they want to see the price back down where people can afford a lot of it.
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To start with... I pay twice as much for my gas in Sweden. Currently the price is ~€1.5/litre, but a 2-3 years ago it was €1.2/litre, and analysts expect our prise to rise aboce €1.7 during late summer/early fall.
But we're not driving any less, so there's no demand falling. It just cuts deeper in our wallets. Our life style doesn't change, which means we will continue driving as we have.
The only difference is that with high prices, someone else is hoarding in the money.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 05:38:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by alienist
I did see Bernie Sanders on the Daily Show last week. I was glad to hear him criticize the tax breaks for the rich.
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Check this out
Take note Fripp, no GOP bias from me. I call them as I see them.
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WHY ARE YOU CALLING ME OUT?!?!? I WASN'T EVEN PART OF THIS TOPIC?!?!?!?!?!?!
YOU "CALL THEM AS YOU SEE THEM"? WHAT'S THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN?!?!? DID YOU JUST CALL ME AN ASSHOLE? WELL, F YOU!!!
Just kidding Bill 
Your input is duly noted. I'm not in the mood for debate today. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 06:28:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by alienist
I did see Bernie Sanders on the Daily Show last week. I was glad to hear him criticize the tax breaks for the rich.
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Check this out
Take note Fripp, no GOP bias from me. I call them as I see them.
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WHY ARE YOU CALLING ME OUT?!?!? I WASN'T EVEN PART OF THIS TOPIC?!?!?!?!?!?!
YOU "CALL THEM AS YOU SEE THEM"? WHAT'S THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN?!?!? DID YOU JUST CALL ME AN ASSHOLE? WELL, F YOU!!!
Just kidding Bill
Your input is duly noted. I'm not in the mood for debate today.
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I am not trying to call you out but rather just convince you that I am not the walking/talking republican robot that you think I am. I don't take any of them at face value. When I said that I called them as I see them I was talking about the pubs who blocked the reform for 18 months. And then they won't even say why. What aholes. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 06:29:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Bill scott
I think it's the hedge funds who get rich when oil is $110/barrel and not OPEC. OPEC gets rich from selling lots of oil. With gas at $4.29 they see demand falling. To get demand back up they want to see the price back down where people can afford a lot of it.
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To start with... I pay twice as much for my gas in Sweden. Currently the price is ~€1.5/litre, but a 2-3 years ago it was €1.2/litre, and analysts expect our prise to rise aboce €1.7 during late summer/early fall.
But we're not driving any less, so there's no demand falling. It just cuts deeper in our wallets. Our life style doesn't change, which means we will continue driving as we have.
The only difference is that with high prices, someone else is hoarding in the money.
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Here in the US there is so much recreation that revolves around gasoline. By the time you factor in all the RV's, boats, ATV's, wave runners, motorcycles, snowmobiles etc... etc... that are sold here it's staggering. So while $4.29 does not bring this activity to a complete halt, this is one place where demand drops off when gas is $4.29. This is on top of Americans driving less. Many more people could afford to go through $50-100 worth of gas to go boating over the weekend, but only a few can afford to blow $300 or more on gas for some weekend boating. Same with driving. When gas is this high suddenly many more people vacation in their own state rather then taking an 18 hour road trip to Florida or some such place. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 06:53:14 [Permalink]
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Want to see demand for gasoline drop like a rock? Pass a Federal law that says any time that gasoline prices would go down, the Federal tax on the stuff goes up by the same amount. The price at the pump will that way always stay the same or rise, and the government can take all the extra gas taxes raised and dump it into alternative fuel and battery research.
(Sure, the law would also have to mandate specific profit margins for refiners, gas stations and all other middle-men, but what the hell. It's not like gasoline is the only thing any of them sell.) |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 06:56:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
I am not trying to call you out but rather just convince you that I am not the walking/talking republican robot that you think I am. I don't take any of them at face value. When I said that I called them as I see them I was talking about the pubs who blocked the reform for 18 months. And then they won't even say why. What aholes.
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Groovy |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 08:15:51 [Permalink]
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I would love to have Bernie Sanders as president. It'll never happen.
The price of crude just dropped to under 100 dollars a barrel. Wonder if the prices at the pump will start drifting down?
Crude oil prices slump; are gas pump prices next?
As for the OP of this thread, I do think Obama has at the very least acknowledged that atheists are here and are full citizens of this country. I can't think of a president before him who has done that. W's dad pretty much said that atheists do not deserve full first amendment protections. And to my thinking, since just about anyone elected to high office has to pay lip service to the god thing, we will never know how much they actually care in their private thoughts. It wasn't always that way. It's politics, and Obama has moved the discussion in the right direction.
Plus, I don't really care if Obama is an atheist or not either, as Marf said. For me, policy is everything. It's all that matters. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 08:34:17 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| Want to see demand for gasoline drop like a rock? |
Not unless an affordable and practical alternative to gasoline is already in place first. Like it or not affordable gas is the backbone of the US economic engine. I would be against breaking that backbone UNTIL an affordable and particle alternative backbone is discovered, tested and proven to be able to replace the current backbone with little or no hiccup in the transition. In other words lets not burn our current bridge until our new bridge is complete, tested, proven and ready for the transition. To burn our current bridge before the new bridge is complete and proven is just insane.
Besides jacking up fuel costs with no alternative in place jacks up food costs in the US and all over the world. The cost to farm and transport is drastically effected by fuel costs. You have now put food cost out of reach for millions who previously were right on the bubble.
Pass a Federal law that says any time that gasoline prices would go down, the Federal tax on the stuff goes up by the same amount. The price at the pump will that way always stay the same or rise, and the government can take all the extra gas taxes raised and dump it into alternative fuel and battery research.
(Sure, the law would also have to mandate specific profit margins for refiners, gas stations and all other middle-men, but what the hell. It's not like gasoline is the only thing any of them sell.) |
In my opinion I think we have to get to the point where alternative fuel and batteries are at least in the same ballpark as oil, natural gas, coal etc... in practicality and affordability before we can realistically start talking about a transition from one to another.
I think many or most Americans, in the name of going green, would pay the same amount of money for an electric car or hybrid if the practicality and affordability were one in the same as their gasoline counterparts. What I don't think will happen is that Americans will give $45k for an electric car that is the size of a Yugo and only goes 40 miles on a full charge.
And as of now the fully electric car is just kicking the can down the road from what I see. At the end of the day when the electric car is plugged in being charged the electricity charging the car is being produced mostly by burning coal. So that is another current hiccup.
So I guess my question is how do you see this time line of converting to batteries and alternative fuel panning out? As far as I can tell this push for green energy, for the most part, began in the Clinton/Gore years. So give us your gut feel and best guess on when this window might start opening up to the point where the batteries and alternative fuels are now at least in the same ballpark as their gasoline brethren in practicality and affordability. And how do we charge all of these millions and millions of batteries now out there demanding juice? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 05/06/2011 08:49:47 |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 08:47:35 [Permalink]
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| Another problem I've heard is that we could be trading "dependence on foreign oil" to "dependence on foreign minerals" if, for example, we are using lithium-based batteries. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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