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KingDavid8
Skeptic Friend

USA
212 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  06:13:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit KingDavid8's Homepage Send KingDavid8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Hercules
You only think it's a "personal attack" because you don't want people to know the facts about you or your website. What I posted was factual. You have absolutely no relevant qualifications, formal training or credentials of ANY KIND.


Don't mind Hercules, people. He's been trolling me for years.

Herc, if you aren't going to post evidence into the forum, but just provide links and personal attacks, then I've really got to ask that you stick to the other forum.
Edited by - KingDavid8 on 05/21/2011 06:32:39
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changingmyself
Skeptic Friend

USA
122 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  07:52:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send changingmyself a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by teched246

Can someone tell me if any my links aren't working so I can fix them...paticularly the one under the image of jesus.


Yes, they are working.




"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"

-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School

Edited by - changingmyself on 05/21/2011 07:53:50
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changingmyself
Skeptic Friend

USA
122 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  09:41:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send changingmyself a Private Message  Reply with Quote


HORUS: ADORNED BY 3 KINGS



(Wilkinson, Manner and Customs of the Ancient Egyptians, III, 18, Murdock the 2010 Astrotheology Calendar, 34)

Sokar, Osiris, and Ptah -- 3 kings -- approaching baby Horus in a manger at the Winter Solstice.

To add why this is relevant...
The ancient Egyptian pyramid texts By James P. Allen
Page 7
"The resultant spiritual entity was known as the akh: literally, an "effective" being. No longer subjectot the entropy of a physical body or the limitations."

Page 425 Akh-Deceased person whose BA has reunited with its KA.

Page 232
"Earth, here this which the gods have said! Horus says he will akhify his father as Ha, as Min, as Sokar, foremost of Spread Lake."


Page 105
31 "Recitation, Awake for Horus, stand up against Seth, Raise yourself as Osiris, as the Akh who is Gebs first son..."

Page 80
"Osiris Teti, awake! Geb has fetched Horus for you, that he might take account of you. Horus has found you and has become akh through you. Horus has elevated the gods to you...
Horus has attached himself to you and cannot be parted from you. Horus has caused you to live, in your identity of Andjeti."

The Moses mystery: the African origins of the Jewish people
Gary Greenberg
"the Genesis author has taken the ritual through which the deceased Horus becomes Osiris..."
Gary Greenberg a trial attorney president of the Biblical Archaeology Society of New York holds aloft scattered fragments of archeological findings...

Dictionary of Ancient Deities - Page 367
Patricia Turner, Charles Russell Coulter
"The phoenix, although the "ba" of Ra, the sun god,
is also a manifestion of Osiris according to the Book of the Dead."
Patricia Turner is Vice Provost of Undergraduate Studies at UC Davis and also a faculty member in the programs of African and African American Studies

Dictionary of Ancient Deities By Patricia Turner, Charles Russell Coulter page 367
"There are over one hundred and fify names or aspects of Osiris"


ReMembering Osiris: number, gender, and the word in ancient Egyptian ... By Tom Hare Page 14
"So we find address to "Osiris in the sky", "Osiris the commander of the Two Lands", "Osiris among the Aegean islanders",
"Osiris in the Two Horizons", "Osiris, Lord of the Universe", and so on. One Finds as well the identification of
Osiris with other major and minor gods of the Egyptian panteon, either explicitly as Osiris Ptah, Lord of life; Osiris Sokar
in the Lake Explanse; Osiris Horus Mighty of Arm; Osiris with the portion of Re-or by implication."
Thomas Hare is William Sauter LaPorte '28 Professor in Regional Studies and Professor of Comparative Literature at Princeton University.

Added Education

"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"

-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School

Edited by - changingmyself on 05/21/2011 12:59:13
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Hercules
New Member

35 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  11:45:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Hercules a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by KingDavid8

Originally posted by Hercules
You only think it's a "personal attack" because you don't want people to know the facts about you or your website. What I posted was factual. You have absolutely no relevant qualifications, formal training or credentials of ANY KIND.


Don't mind Hercules, people. He's been trolling me for years.

Herc, if you aren't going to post evidence into the forum, but just provide links and personal attacks, then I've really got to ask that you stick to the other forum.


LOL, okay then King David, answer this simple question: do you have any relevant formal training, qualifications or credentials whatsoever? Yes or no?

What linguistic skills have you ... what other languages do you speak, read &/or write (especially biblical languages such as ancient Greek, Hebrew or Latin)?
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Hercules
New Member

35 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  11:47:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Hercules a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by KingDavid8

Also, without responding to any specific piece of evidence, I am asking people here that, when an image is posted, ask yourself if the image really shows what ChangingMyself and Teched say it does.

For an example *not* from this page, Zeitgeist shows the Luxor Inscriptions in the movie, with Peter Joseph claiming that it shows the *virgin Isis* having her *upcoming conception announced*. It's just an image of a woman standing before a god, and PJ is simply trying to "fill in the blanks" for us. First of all, there was nothing in the image saying or suggesting that the woman here was a virgin. Did anyone see a hymen? While a little research did show that this was part of Horus' birth narrative, you could also see from the image that the woman had a bulging belly, thus was *already pregnant*. It's her upcoming *birth* being announced, not her conception. In fact, it's *not even Isis* in that image. This is a different birth narrative for Horus, in which his mother is a human queen and her father is Amun, and their lovemaking is described back in panel 4, which PJ skipped. Even famed atheist skeptic Richard Carrier agrees with all of this in an article here: http://www.frontline-apologetics.com/Luxor_Inscription.html
So basically, if ChangingMyself and Teched show you an image and describe what it shows, ask yourself if the image really shows what they're saying. Since I can't respond, I'll leave it you all to be skeptical of this stuff, and only accept what they say it shows, if it actually shows what they're saying. Are the players in the image who and what they say they are?


Has anyone actually read the response to Richard Carrier's Luxor article?

"For the inscription of this "bed" scene, Carrier refers us to page 42, et seq., of Brunner, upon which we find two main paragraphs in German relating the words spoken by Amun and the queen as reflected in the hieroglyphs surrounding the image. Carrier states this is where the "very real sex" and "soft-core porn" come in. However, in "skimming" Brunner's text, as he puts it, Carrier has mistakenly dealt with the substantially different Hatshepsut text (Brunner's "IV D"), demonstrating an egregious error in garbling the cycles, when in fact we are specifically interested in the Luxor narrative (IV L)."

"In this picture we have the Annunciation, the Conception, the Birth, and the Adoration, as described in the First and Second Chapters of Luke's Gospel; and as we have historical assurance that the chapters in Matthew's Gospel which contain the Miraculous Birth of Jesus are an after addition not in the earliest manuscripts, it seems probable that these two poetical chapters in Luke may also be unhistorical, and be borrowed from the Egyptian accounts of the miraculous birth of their kings."

- Dr. Samuel C. Sharpe, Egyptian Mythology and Egyptian Christianity (p. 19)

http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/luxor.html

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KingDavid8
Skeptic Friend

USA
212 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  12:02:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit KingDavid8's Homepage Send KingDavid8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Hercules
LOL, okay then King David, answer this simple question: do you have any relevant formal training, qualifications or credentials whatsoever? Yes or no?


No, and I never pretended otherwise.

What linguistic skills have you ... what other languages do you speak, read &/or write (especially biblical languages such as ancient Greek, Hebrew or Latin)?


None, and I never pretended otherwise.

Now can we leave the personal attacks to the other board? Yes or no?
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KingDavid8
Skeptic Friend

USA
212 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  12:10:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit KingDavid8's Homepage Send KingDavid8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Hercules
"In this picture we have the Annunciation, the Conception, the Birth, and the Adoration, as described in the First and Second Chapters of Luke's Gospel
- Dr. Samuel C. Sharpe, Egyptian Mythology and Egyptian Christianity (p. 19)


But we still don't have a virgin, Isis herself, or an annunciation of the upcoming conception, which is what Zeitgeist is falsely claiming. I have four daughters, and each one of them had a conception, birth, annunciation (in some sense) and adoration. To a Christ-myther, this must be proof-positive that my daughters don't exist, right?
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changingmyself
Skeptic Friend

USA
122 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  13:42:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send changingmyself a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Education for what Teched posted:
Richard H. Wilkinson is an archaeologist in the field of Egyptology. He is Regents Professor of Egyptian Archaeology at the University of Arizona

"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"

-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School

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Hercules
New Member

35 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  13:54:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Hercules a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by KingDavid8

Originally posted by Hercules
LOL, okay then King David, answer this simple question: do you have any relevant formal training, qualifications or credentials whatsoever? Yes or no?


No, and I never pretended otherwise.

What linguistic skills have you ... what other languages do you speak, read &/or write (especially biblical languages such as ancient Greek, Hebrew or Latin)?


None, and I never pretended otherwise.

Now can we leave the personal attacks to the other board? Yes or no?

KingDavid, Thank you for confirming that what I stated previously was, in fact, factual - that you have no relevant qualifications or credentials whatsoever. So, why then do *YOU* launch a personal attack against me? By name-calling me a "troll?" What you really mean by that is that I have been pointing out the facts for years ... facts you don't want people to be made aware of, especially those reading your website.

I've asked you for years to provide a disclaimer on your website stating the fact that not only do you have absolutely no relevant qualifications or credentials whatsoever but, you haven't even read one single book by Acharya S either. You had no idea that all those lists on your website came from Acharya's books until I told you just a year or so ago. So, you've been attacking Acharya S and her work ever since you created your website 8 years ago and you never knew those lists were hers because you've refused to actually read her books. So, you refuse to read the very books that your website launches a tirade against. That is known as intellectual dishonesty. I think we know who's really the "troll" here.

My point in sharing the fact that you have no relevant qualifications or credentials whatsoever is due to the fact that you keep making claims such as:

KingDavid8: "Just a reminder of what types of evidences I will accept for my challenge:

1) Versions of their stories in which we can read about them actually doing these things, provided that the stories are generally agreed-upon by scholars to be pre-Christian.

2) Any information coming from scholarly sources who are not specifically trying to prove parallels to Jesus, for example:
a) General mythology books and websites, provided they have no Christ-myther agenda
b) Scholars (Christian or not) who work for a university who agree that the parallels are valid.
c) Anything coming from a mainstream peer-reviewed journal.

3) Photographs of pre-Christian heiroglyphs showing them clearly doing these things

Any of the above that doesn't fit into one of these categories is not evidence, per the challenge."


You are in no position whatsoever to make any claims on determining what is or isn't credible evidence. For example, your comments regarding Richard Carrier's Luxor article at the bottom of page 1 here is a perfect example of an epic failure. Carrier makes "egregious errors" that were quite sloppy so, just because a scholar holds a Ph.D doesn't mean they can't be in error. The only reason you hold up Carrier's Luxor article as counter evidence is because you agree with it. The problem is Carrier was demonstrably wrong. And, the "virgin" issue was addressed throughout the article I linked. Obviously, you didn't read that either.

Another factoid here is that there are no theology courses for this information. There's no course for astrotheology or even a comparative religion course that spells out all the parallels. So, all you're attempting to do here with your "types of evidences I will accept for my challenge" is back us into an unfair corner forcing us to rely on scholars that often know very little about these issues since academia doesn't even discuss let alone teach them. And you know this, which is why your list of what you'll accept is dishonest.

Now that we all that out of the way ... carry on.

KingDavid: "But we still don't have a virgin, Isis herself, or an annunciation of the upcoming conception, which is what Zeitgeist is falsely claiming. I have four daughters, and each one of them had a conception, birth, annunciation (in some sense) and adoration. To a Christ-myther, this must be proof-positive that my daughters don't exist, right?"

LOL, that is just more of your dishonest tactics of making fallacious arguments. Your derogatory remarks against "Christ-Mythers" exposes your utter bias here. Your girls were not created by the holy ghost nor was there any such prophecy that you would have 4 girls. You're incapable of debating these issues on a sincere level. Yet, you have no problem believing that a Jewish zombie in the sky is god of the universe ... etc, etc.

"...several important aspects of Sharpe‘s contentions to have a factual basis, and concludes:

"Regardless of the order of the scenes, or the terminology used to describe elements thereof, the fact remains that at the Temple of Luxor is depicted the conception upon a virgin by the highly important father god, Amun, to produce a divine son. As we have seen, Amun‘s divine child in this birth cycle is the #8213;bringer of salvation,#8214; and this myth of the miraculous birth of the divine savior likely was #8213;recorded of every Egyptian king,#8214; making it highly noticeable long before the Christ figure was ever conceived."

- The New Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook (2010), page 80
http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/zeitgeistsourcebook.pdf


"The Egyptian goddess who was equally ‘the Great Virgin’ (hwnt) and ‘Mother of the God’ was the object of the very same praise bestowed upon her successor [Mary, Virgin Mother of Jesus]."

- Dr. Witt, an Egyptologist

"The Pyramid Texts speak of "the great virgin" (Hwn.t wr.t) three times (682c, 728a, 2002a, cf. 809c)" ...

"In a text in the Abydos Temple of Seti I, Isis herself declares:

"I am the great virgin"

- Christ in Egypt, page 152

* The Pyramid Texts are 4,400 years old.


Edited by - Hercules on 05/21/2011 14:19:38
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changingmyself
Skeptic Friend

USA
122 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  14:09:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send changingmyself a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ancient Egyptian science: a source book. Knowledge and Order, Volume 1 By Marshall Clagett
Heliacal rising of Sirus and Sothic periods in Ancient Egypt Marshall Clagett Page 226
Isis-Sothis (i.e. Sirius) [Immediately below is a standing] goddess holding a was scepter
Marshall Clagett began his undergraduate education in 1933 at the California Institute of Technology. He obtained both the A.B. and M.A. from George Washington University in 1937. In 1941, he received his Ph.D. in history from Columbia University.


Egyptian Mythology: A Guide to the Gods, Goddesses, and Traditions of ... By Geraldine Pinch Page 128
Description of the Djed

"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"

-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9672 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  14:47:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
KingDavid8 and Hercules, I see a lot of posts in this thread that belongs in the other, Meta-thread, and not in this particular thread. This thread was supposed to be changingmyself presenting her evidence, nothing more. You are cluttering up her thread with fluff.

Also, members of SFN aren't stupid. Don't treat us as such, I find it offensive. And though I commit myself to be as impartial as possible, I can't guarantee that being treated as stupid won't affect my judgement in some small manner.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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KingDavid8
Skeptic Friend

USA
212 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  15:25:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit KingDavid8's Homepage Send KingDavid8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
This thread was supposed to be changingmyself presenting her evidence, nothing more. You are cluttering up her thread with fluff.


Just to clarify, is discussion of the evidence supposed to occur in this thread, or in the other one?
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9672 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  15:33:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave said in the other thread her evidence. Not Herkules'.

Edited to add: Whatever Hercules posts, why should you respond to it, in this thread? Since the challenge was for changingmyself to present evidence, not Hercules. Whatever he posts in this thread will be disregarded. Wasn't that the deal?


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 05/21/2011 15:40:22
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teched246
Skeptic Friend

123 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  15:50:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send teched246 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

KingDavid8 and Hercules,

Also, members of SFN aren't stupid. Don't treat us as such, I find it offensive.


I do apologize for my condescending demeanor on the other thread about us bringing this topic to this website. I interpreted Dave's comment asking "what brought you guys to our corner of the Web" as meaning this website had not usually been host to controversial topics as this one. It was later that he sent me a link to other forums here, which have in fact been discussing this since 2000.

"For all things have been baptized in the well of eternity and are beyond good
and evil; and good and evil themselves are but intervening shadows and damp
depressions and drifting clouds.Verily, it is a blessing and not a blasphemy
when I teach: ‘Over all things stand the heaven Accident, the heaven
Innocence, the heaven Chance, the heaven Prankishness." -Nietzsche
Edited by - teched246 on 05/21/2011 15:58:33
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KingDavid8
Skeptic Friend

USA
212 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  16:03:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit KingDavid8's Homepage Send KingDavid8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Whatever Hercules posts, why should you respond to it, in this thread? Since the challenge was for changingmyself to present evidence, not Hercules. Whatever he posts in this thread will be disregarded. Wasn't that the deal?


Not as I understood it, but I might have misunderstood. I thought that discussion of the evidence would be in this thread, and I was free to take part in that discussion, as long as I didn't respond to ChangingMyself and Teched's evidence. If the deal is supposed to be that I don't post on this board at all, but only in the other one, I'll gladly go along with that. Either way, I will stop responding to Hercules in this thread, and you're right that I shouldn't have responded to his personal attacks here in the first place. I apologize.
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