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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/19/2011 :  03:23:47  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, the End is nigh. On Saturday, May 21, all of the righteous Christians will be yanked out of their shoes and drained into Heaven. This is a good thing for them, but what about their innocent dogs and cats and gerbils and so forth? Will they be left behind to starve?

No, they will not. It's the atheists to the rescue!
Atheists offer to rescue Christians’ pets after judgment day

By Agence France-Presse
Wednesday, May 18th, 2011 -- 5:36 pm

WASHINGTON — When judgment day comes -- which some US Christian fundamentalists insist will happen on Saturday -- have you thought about what you're going to do with the family dog and cat?

In 26 US states, you could have them rescued and adopted by enterprising atheists who have set up a business to care for the animal companions of any Christians who are selected to go to heaven when Jesus Christ comes back.

"You've committed your life to Jesus. You know you're saved. But when the Rapture comes, what's to become of your loving pets who are left behind?" Eternal Earth-Bound Pets says on its website, offering to "take that burden off your mind."

This sounds like a great idea and I feel a little selfish and ashamed about it. I was just going to look around for a new pickup truck.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 05/19/2011 :  07:11:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well Filthy have you thought their pets may be better off with out them? I know I would. So sadly, that's one big asinine delusion I'm sorry we'll never get to see. To bad more of them don't believe their delusions enough to take the express train to heaven like the followers of the Heavens Gate Religion did. Can you imagine what laws one of those 39 nutty fuckers could dream up, had they run and reached office? Well we don't need an imagination for that. Mr & Mrs Muther Focker have won elections with civil liberties and the personal liberties of those not deluded in their narrow views, all to often are their victims. SS

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
Edited by - sailingsoul on 05/19/2011 07:12:50
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  03:20:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Today's the Big Day. Around supper time this evening, ruaptureous Christians will be swept aloft like spider hatchlings floating on gossamer strands, riding a summer breeze. They will be off to meet Jesus. Or something -- the Bible isn't terribly clear on that point.

It is said that there's going to be earthquakes, among other inconviences, and it's all looking pretty grim for the rest of us. Therefore, I’d like to take these last, brief moments to wish everyone a Happy Rapture Day and express the hope that the party won’t get too messy.

Of course, God might decide, or indeed, have already decided, not to bother with a parcel noisy, preachy people cluttering up Heaven on such a fine, Spring day. In that most likely of scenarios, we’ll just have to stash the good booze and wait until the Mayan Calendar runs out on December 21, 2012 to celebrate.

And if that one doesn’t work out either, well, someone will come up with another soon enough.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 05/21/2011 03:24:37
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  17:38:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, everybody's getting a chuckle out the predictable absence of floating Christians. But who the hell is this Harold Camping fellow, anyway?

Harold Camping is a Christian radio motormouth and another of those numerology nitwits:
Camping (born July 19, 1921) is an American Christian radio broadcaster[1] and president of Family Radio, a California-based radio station that spans more than 150 markets in the United States.

Camping's trademarks include his deep, sonorous voice coupled with a slow cadence. He has also used Bible-based numerology to predict dates for the end of the world, dates which passed without incident.[2] His most recent end times prediction was that the Rapture would occur on May 21, 2011 and that God would subsequently completely destroy the Earth and the universe five months later on October 21.[3][4] He had previously predicted that the Rapture would occur in September 1994.[5]

PZ has some not-very-pleasant thoughts on Camping and his lame-assed predictions:
While Harold Camping sits safe with his millions…
Posted on: May 21, 2011 4:08 PM, by PZ Myers

…the fear he fosters spreads around the world.

This woman, fearful of the end of the world, took a boxcutter to the throats of her two daughters, and then sliced her own throat. This is what religion encourages: fear based on imaginary terrors.

At this point, there is a video; then:
Here's a man who committed suicide in Nairobi. Here's a family torn by parents who gave away everything to Camping; the mother said a daughter would be left behind…at least she didn't try to cut her throat.

I want to see Harold Camping prosecuted for bilking people out of their money, for destroying lives and families. I want to see his radio empire dismantled and the people who promoted his lies disgraced and ashamed.

It won't happen.

So, it's not so funny after all, is it? These would-be "seers" and their sanctimonious fellow-travelers do more damage to their followers than anything else, and like PZ, I would love to see every skuzzy one of them pilloried, figuratively if it can't be done literally.





"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  18:15:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm... I had the same thought as I was writing my Evil Pick for tonights summary. We all make those "cull the herd" jokes. But still...Just like when a child is killed because of some quack idea like rebirthing, and the practitioner and the parents are often held responsible, so should be Harold Camping be held responsible for his brand of madness.


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular

USA
854 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2011 :  10:51:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Machi4velli a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not his fault people committed suicide, I imagine that's not even something his rhetoric supports.

As for scamming people for money, that sounds like evidence he didn't believe the stuff he was peddling -- otherwise, why would he want money? Maybe an angle for prosecution?

"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking

"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9672 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2011 :  13:38:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If religious extremists want to slit their own throats, I couldn't care less. But when they start murdering their own innocent children, well that just have to stop. Even if it means throwing them in the loony-bin and keep them on suicide watch.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2011 :  05:53:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, not being able to take a lickin' for an answer, Mr. Camping's back! Seems that he "miscalculated," and where have we heard that one before.
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The evangelical Christian broadcaster whose much-ballyhooed Judgment Day prophecy went conspicuously unfulfilled on Saturday has a simple explanation for what went wrong -- he miscalculated.

Instead of the world physically coming to an end on May 21 with a great, cataclysmic earthquake, as he had predicted, Harold Camping, 89, said he now believes his forecast is playing out "spiritually," with the actual apocalypse set to occur five months later, on October 21.

Camping, who launched a doomsday countdown in which some followers spent their life's savings in anticipation of being swept into heaven, issued his correction during an appearance on his "Open Forum" radio show from Oakland, California.

The headquarters of Camping's Family Radio network of 66 U.S. stations had been shuttered over the weekend with a sign on the door that read, "This Office is Closed. Sorry we missed you!"

During a sometimes rambling, 90-minute discourse that included a question-and-answer session with reporters, Camping said he felt bad that Saturday had come and gone without the Rapture he had felt so certain would take place.

Reflecting on scripture afterward, Camping said it "dawned" on him that a "merciful and compassionate God" would spare humanity from "hell on Earth for five months" by compressing the physical apocalypse into a shorter time frame.

But he insisted that October 21 has always been the end-point of his own End Times chronology, or at least, his latest chronology.

I have a question -- one among many, actually: Has any of these numerology twits ever called it right? About anything?

I think that our Harold should retire from the prognostication racket. He is 89 years old and looks it, and seems to be getting driftier with each ridiculous statement.

Anybody wanna run a book on a 10/21 rapture? I thought not...





"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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tw101356
Skeptic Friend

USA
333 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2011 :  06:45:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send tw101356 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
October 21 eh? This time I'm going to be ready for it. Got all summer to collect complete sets of pants, shirt, socks, and shoes to leave lying around town at the fated hour. Maybe also a few, um, inflatable life sized dolls (do they have cheapo ones at the dollar store?) and a tank of helium.

- TW
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KingDavid8
Skeptic Friend

USA
212 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2011 :  06:48:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit KingDavid8's Homepage Send KingDavid8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2011 :  07:18:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
More from PZ.

What we have here is a lot more than some semi-senile, California dingbat blathering about imaginary disasters -- as if we didn't already have enough of the ordinary kind.

No, the real problem is a social one. We just can't seem to shake the religious superstitions passed down by tribal shamen who knew nothing of their world beyond their immediate territory. iI they had, there would likely have never been the Abrahamic faiths. It is also likely that there would have been something else equally asinine.

What follows is a quote of a quote lifted from PZ's article:
Christian eschatology is a vile and hateful message about their imaginary tyrant god who, once again, is scheduled to have a temper tantrum in which he kills almost everyone, snatches up their souls, and makes them suffer for eternity for being human. A few will be spared; their reward is an eternity of servility, but at least they get to know they're better than everyone else. And that's the real lesson here: it's all about elitism and the most extreme threats imaginable to anyone who does not support these self-appointed masters of dogma. Again, there's no reason to believe any of it, other than that people have absorbed the propaganda for the whole of their lifetime.

The Christian bible is supposed to be the ultimate source of authority, and to many of the more extreme, the only source of authority. It's got 'bible codes' in it; it's a rich vein of numerological bullshit to be mined; it's vagued, confused, ambiguous, and contradictory, a refuse heap of tribal gobbledygook hallowed by nothing other than long ages of accumulation. Our minds try desperately to find pattern and meaning in what we observe around us, and the best source to trigger all kinds of lunatic pattern generating theories is a nearly totally incoherent mass of text with huge cultural signposts pointing at it and screaming that it is important.

It's like being told that a tangled, confusing clump of jungle, all bewildering with shadow and random shapes slashing across it, is the home of a fierce tiger that will kill you if you get close. Stare hard at it, and you can convince yourself that there is something dangerous lurking there, even if it contains no animal larger than a rabbit.

The entire thing is worth a read.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2011 :  08:23:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by KingDavid8


There we have it, baloney to refute baloney. Atheist recognize that there is a great deal of the baloney in the Bible. I believe KingDavid8 doesn't see his post as Baloney but I might. I certainly believe there is a tonne of baloney in the Bible, I am sincere in my beliefs. I believe most Theists disagree, in spite of the difference.

Maybe you, KingDavid8, would care to help me understand and share your thoughts here. Do you believe (1) all or (2)only part of the bible is worth believing/following and if it's the latter how do you determine which part of the Bible is worth believing/following and which is not worth believing/following? SS

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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KingDavid8
Skeptic Friend

USA
212 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2011 :  08:45:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit KingDavid8's Homepage Send KingDavid8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by sailingsoul
Maybe you, KingDavid8, would care to help me understand and share your thoughts here. Do you believe (1) all or (2)only part of the bible is worth believing/following and if it's the latter how do you determine which part of the Bible is worth believing/following and which is not worth believing/following? SS


I guess it depends on what you mean by "believing" and "following".

Do I think that all of the stories in the Bible are history? No, I believe many of them are parables, including Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, and Jonah. I wouldn't say that means I don't "believe" those stories. I just consider them the equivalent of Jesus' parables like that of the Prodigal Son. They're stories that are meant to teach us things, but aren't historically accurate.

As for "following", I think much of the Old Testament laws were laws that applied to those people at that time, not something that was meant for all people for all time. In fact, some of the OT laws apparently applied to some tribes, but not others. So, no, I don't live according to all of the Old Testament laws, and neither does any Christian I know.

As for how I determine what is what, I try to just consider the context of the writing. If the author is writing about something that happened in the recent past (say, the last century), I'm more likely to conclude that it's meant to be history. If it took place in the distant past, or if its "when" is not clear, I'm more likely to conclude that it's meant to be parable, or at least that the author wouldn't really know the details of what happened. There are other factors as well, but that's a big one right there. When it comes to commands, I try to ask myself who the command was actually for and why it was being given, and does it thus apply to me?

I consider myself a follower of Jesus, but I know that I'm not a very good one at that, and don't hold myself up as any sort of example of what a Christian should be. Between the best examples and worst examples of a Christian, I'm probably somewhere towards the middle. I don't think my being a Christian makes me better or worse than I was when I was an atheist, but I do accept Jesus as my savior, and hope and trust that my shortcomings are forgiven.

If you want to discuss any of this further, let's start a new thread and leave this one to discussing Harold Camping (who I would definitely consider a poor example of a Christian).
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1884 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2011 :  10:24:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jesus, the original xian apocalypticist.
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Jesus just didn't pick a date. But it is clear that just like the author of Mark that he author of Matthew had Jesus stating that the end of times would occur within the lifetime of his disciples. Camping is just the latest apocalypticist.

I don't understand why they just don't admit their mistake and move on. After all being wrong is not the end of the world.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2011 :  11:02:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great, I'll try and keep it short.
Originally posted by KingDavid8

Do I think that all of the stories in the Bible are history? No, I believe many of them are parables, including Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, and Jonah. I wouldn't say that means I don't "believe" those stories. I just consider them the equivalent of Jesus' parables like that of the Prodigal Son. They're stories that are meant to teach us things, but aren't historically accurate.

Yes Jesus spoke in parables and allegedly Matthew asked him about it ( I've never read the question because I couldn't find it but in Matthew 13:11,13 Jesus answered, " That is why I use these parables, For they look, but they don’t really see. They hear, but they don’t really listen or understand.". Seems his followers eyes or ears haven't gotten any better over the centuries but what I find more important is,,,, where is it stated in the book of Genesis or anywhere in the OT, that Genesis is a parable and not the true word from God, the author? Also, You then stated further in your reply.
I'm more likely to conclude that it's meant to be parable, or at least that the author wouldn't really know the details of what happened.

Did you mean? "at least that (when) the author wouldn't really know the details". If so, I never read that God talked of using parables. I don't believe it's right to think Genesis is a parable with out any evidence but opinion. I understand that God didn't transcribe Genesis but it is claimed to be "His words" transcribed by man and God was there. God could have said something like "you all got tiny limited brains and really won't understand ( not to mention being functionally blind and deaf), so I'm using parables, " like Jesus said, in not so many words. Comment about Genesis being a parable?

As for "following", I think much of the Old Testament laws were laws that applied to those people at that time, not something that was meant for all people for all time. In fact, some of the OT laws apparently applied to some tribes, but not others. So, no, I don't live according to all of the Old Testament laws, and neither does any Christian I know.
Yes, a standard reasoning used Christians. I know you must be busy and won't go further. I won't reply here if you address my questions but possibly start a new thread then. We shouldn't hijack this thread.
I thank you for your honest reply to date. SS








There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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KingDavid8
Skeptic Friend

USA
212 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2011 :  12:49:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit KingDavid8's Homepage Send KingDavid8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by sailingsoul
where is it stated in the book of Genesis or anywhere in the OT, that Genesis is a parable and not the true word from God, the author?


As far as I know, it doesn't say one way or the other. Nor does it say that God was the author of Genesis (it's generally believed to be Moses, I think). This is a conclusion I've come to based on several factors, including the incredible length of time between the "events" and the writing of them, and also the fact that if it were *historically true*, then it would strongly suggest that the world is only a few thousand years old and man and all other creatures were created in the same week, and I'm pretty sure neither is true.

Also, You then stated further in your reply.
I'm more likely to conclude that it's meant to be parable, or at least that the author wouldn't really know the details of what happened.

Did you mean? "at least that (when) the author wouldn't really know the details".


Maybe a bit too much wording in my original sentence, but no. I'm saying that if there's a huge gap in time between the events and the writing of them, then this makes it more likely that the written details could be wrong. Meaning it could be a outright parable, or it could be basically true but with some of the details mixed up.

If so, I never read that God talked of using parables. I don't believe it's right to think Genesis is a parable with out any evidence but opinion.


It's not just opinion. Again, it's based in part on the fact that there's such a huge gap between the events and the writing, and also that it being "historically true" conflicts with what we know about natural history.

I understand that God didn't transcribe Genesis but it is claimed to be "His words" transcribed by man and God was there.


I don't believe the Bible says any such thing. That's just an opinion some people have that I disagree with.

God could have said something like "you all got tiny limited brains and really won't understand ( not to mention being functionally blind and deaf), so I'm using parables, " like Jesus said, in not so many words. Comment about Genesis being a parable?


I could be wrong, but I don't believe that every single time Jesus used a parable, He specifically stated that it was one. That doesn't mean that when Jesus didn't preface it with "Here's a parable for y'all...", we assume it's not a parable. Genesis doesn't say "this is a parable", but it doesn't say "this is historical fact", either. So I think we're justified in looking at it and trying to determine which one it is. Some conclude it's a historical fact, but I don't find that argument very convincing. Being parable seems to make more sense, all things considered.

And do keep in mind that I'm not talking about ALL of Genesis, just the early chapters. The later stuff that seems to take place closer to the writing is more likely, in my opinion, to be historical.

As for "following", I think much of the Old Testament laws were laws that applied to those people at that time, not something that was meant for all people for all time. In fact, some of the OT laws apparently applied to some tribes, but not others. So, no, I don't live according to all of the Old Testament laws, and neither does any Christian I know.
Yes, a standard reasoning used Christians.


And I think it's valid reasoning, personally.
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