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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular

USA
894 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2011 :  11:58:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ebone4rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by marfknox

Maybe the compliments in a context where intellectual matters are the focus of the gathering are also especially awkward because back-handed compliments are frequently used against women during debates, and it can make some women suspicious of compliments in that context. For instance, once at a party I got into a long (about a half hour) debate about politics with a man about 15 years older than me. The whole conversation he treated me how I imagine he'd treat any man, vigorously debating his side. Then his wife showed up and told him it was time to go home, and we had to cut off our debate. I don't know if this guy is a bonafide misogynist or if he was just so worked up that he temporarily turned into an asshole, but his parting words to me were to gesture up and down at my body (I was wearing a colorful party dress and my hair was dyed blue, and in my late 20's) and say, "You're a pretty young woman, what with your dress and hair and all. You take care now." From his tone he was OBVIOUSLY making an ad hom attack, basically discounting my arguments based on the fact that I was young, female, and present myself rather whimsically. Thankfully I'm a woman with a fair amount of self esteem and thick skin, so I just took that as pathetic on his part. But it is that sort of crap that convinces a lot of women to not even get into discussions about serious and controversial matters. It doesn't mean they don't have strong and well-thought-out opinions.


That guy was a total douche.

You have me conviced. Never hit on women at professional/ intellectual events. Just lay the groundwork for seducing them afterwards at the bar!

Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2011 :  12:34:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ebone wrote:
Ma....I'm not sure what she does all day other than paint her paintings. (by the way, it seems that you are an artist also. I might hit you up for some advice on pimping my Ma's paintings if it is OK with you))
Marketing fine art is difficult even for people who have a knack for marketing and sales. And most artists do not have that skill. I do not possess it. I babysit 40 hours a week and teach an evening printmaking class at a local art center. I maybe sell a thousand dollars worth of art a year and have no hopes of selling more than that any time soon.

It seems every day I have to sift through emotional nonsense and try to pick it apart from the facts so that I can help make decisions for all of them. I'm talking everything from what color to paint the living room to what the best decision would be for financing a purchase. There are so many things that to me there should be no emotion about. It seems that my womens have to have feeling about EVERYTHING even though there is no need for feelings on some subjects.
See, this is the sort of thing that I was trying to talk about when I commented on women supposedly being more emotional. Men are just as emotional, they just express it differently or they don't express it much at all (which of course has its own consequences.) Sometimes people who seem calm practice avoidance or they just project their feelings onto something else later on. So regarding your sister, mom, and wife, do you think they actually can't make these decisions on their own, or have they just gotten into a habit of relying on your judgement? If it is the latter, does it bother you much? If so, do they know it bothers you? Maybe they are relying on you because they believe you don't mind. I mean, if it makes things easier for them and you honestly don't mind, it seems like a smart thing to do. But if they are annoying you, then you should probably tell them about these FEELINGS you have. Then maybe they will deal with the decisions on their own or at least without you. I think you have to keep in mind, too, that men tend to deal with all their emotions internally, while women like to talk things out. It just part of the process. But I don't see any evidence that men tend to make better, more practical and mature decisions in general than women.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

Edited by - marfknox on 05/26/2011 12:36:27
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2011 :  13:47:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
marfknox said:
But I don't see any evidence that men tend to make better, more practical and mature decisions in general than women.

I know we argue and brawl a lot on these forums, but I have to completely agree with you for once. Gender doesn't matter on this particular topic. Stupidity and bad thinking are general traits shared by all people. I'm tempted to say that men are less mature in their decision making than women, but that may be due to the fact that we see the consequences of decisions made by men more often than those made by women, which is probably due to the fact that white men are the holders of authority in western civilization for the last several thousand years.

Ok, now back to our regularly scheduled anger and hostility.



Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular

USA
894 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2011 :  13:49:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ebone4rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
originally posted by marfknox
Marketing fine art is difficult even for people who have a knack for marketing and sales. And most artists do not have that skill. I do not possess it. I babysit 40 hours a week and teach an evening printmaking class at a local art center. I maybe sell a thousand dollars worth of art a year and have no hopes of selling more than that any time soon.



Gotcha. Ma was always a good artist but the last couple of years since her divorce and layoff her skills have improved so much that I was absolutely flabbergasted by the quality of work she is producing. She has no idea what to do with them so I am going to take one of these Saturdays and visit some galleries in the area to get an idea about how to market her. I have experience marketing my bands and have learned that it is not as much about the product but is more about selling the artist themselves. I am confident that she can make a living painting. We just have to find out how to sell them!

(sorry for the sidetrack)

See, this is the sort of thing that I was trying to talk about when I commented on women supposedly being more emotional. Men are just as emotional, they just express it differently or they don't express it much at all (which of course has its own consequences.)


I'd like to add that maybe men and women feel different types of emotions. One thing I notice that is different between my wife and I is the amount of worrying we do. I rarely worry. She worries about everything. My philosophy is " Worrying is what people do when they should be preparing instead." She just can't help it and gets frustrated that I don't worry. I don't know why I don't worry. On the other hand I become frustrated much more often than she does. She can take problems in stride with a smile on her face whereas I get crabby and grumble a lot. Maybe we are just as emotional.

Sometimes people who seem calm practice avoidance or they just project their feelings onto something else later on. So regarding your sister, mom, and wife, do you think they actually can't make these decisions on their own, or have they just gotten into a habit of relying on your judgement? If it is the latter, does it bother you much? If so, do they know it bothers you?


Eh, the I blow off steam is to leave everyone behind, head to the Northwoods, and drink until I fall down. The once or twice a year I do that always makes me feel refreshed.

I'm pretty sure that my wife and sis could manage without me but I don't know about Ma. I do think it is probably just habit for them to look to me for decision making.

I joke with Ma and Sis that they need to go out and find their own damn husbands! It does get overwhelming at times but I will never let on that it is.



Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2011 :  14:10:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dude wrote:
I know we argue and brawl a lot on these forums, but I have to completely agree with you for once.
Um, thanks? I agree with you quite often and think you are one of the smartest regulars on this forum. I just think you are also a asshole a lot of the time. Ho hum.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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