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 Luke 17 and the Rapture
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ChristianIssues
New Member

Australia
5 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2011 :  15:20:19  Show Profile  Visit ChristianIssues's Homepage Send ChristianIssues a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why is it that Luke 17:24-36 is never mentioned when the Rapture is discussed? I find that these verses clearly show when the Rapture will occur so I've made the following article to show how I see things. Can anyone show how this passage can be viewed differently?

The following chart and text examine the verses in Luke 17:24-36 which are entirely about the day Jesus returns like lightning. I start with Matt. 24 to show the timing of the verses in Luke 17:24-36.
Point 3 on the chart is Matt. 24:21, the Great Tribulation, and then after the tribulation …
Point 5 (Matt. 24:27, 30) says that Jesus will appear like lightning - Luke 17:24 is the parallel verse.
Now let's follow the verses in Luke 17 which describe Jesus' return AFTER the Great Tribulation.
Points 6 and 7 (Luke 17:26-29) describe the sudden destruction of sinners in the days of Noah and Lot then …
Point 8 (Luke 17:30) says that it (the destruction) will be just the same when Jesus returns. Also …
Point 9 (Luke 17:31-33) says that “ON THAT DAY” no one should look to earthly things but to remember Lot's
wife because …
Points 10 and 11 (Luke 17:34-35) say that “one will be taken and the other left” and this is the Rapture.
So, AFTER the Great Tribulation, Jesus will return like lightning to rapture believers and to destroy sinners.


This chart shows the flow of events as:
1) The Antichrist ………………………………… at Point 1.
2) The Great Tribulation ………………………… at Point 3.
3) Jesus appears like lightening …………………. at Point 5.
4) The Rapture and the Day Of The Lord ……….. at Points 8 to 11.

Rescuing the righteous and then destroying the sinners was the pattern in the days of Noah and Lot and Jesus said, in Luke 17:30, that it would be the same when He returns.

H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2011 :  15:40:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You are leaving out Matthew 24, the most precise prediction Jesus made about the end of the world. It begins when a disciple approaches Jesus on the Mount of Olives and asks “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” Jesus gives him some signs to look for, including the admonition against false prophets. A lists other calamities: famines, plagues, all the good stuff.

And then Jesus ends by saying "when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

So the end of the world was predicted to occur in their lifetimes. Whoops! I guess we can scratch Jesus and the bible off our list of reliable sources of prophecy. I'd really recommend spending your time on something less fruitless.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular

USA
894 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2011 :  18:06:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ebone4rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The reason it is not discussed is because it is all completely irrelevant seeing as the concept of a rapture is nonsense .

Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring
Edited by - Ebone4rock on 06/15/2011 18:07:55
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alienist
Skeptic Friend

USA
210 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2011 :  18:31:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send alienist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The other fact is that the bible was written by men. there is absolutely no evidence that god had anything to do with it.

The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well! - Joe Ancis
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1888 Posts

Posted - 06/15/2011 :  18:58:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jesus talking to his disciples.
Mark 9:1 "Truly I tell you, some of those standing here will not taste death before they see the Kingdom of God having come in power."

Mark 13:30 "Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away before all these things take place."

As noted previously Jesus was just an early apocalypticist who also got it wrong.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2011 :  05:56:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ChristianIssues, I do so hope that you stick around to actually debate this.

I'd hate to think you were just spamming forums and taking off. We value discussion here, not prostelyzation.


Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2011 :  06:25:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Google offers 20-something results for the phrase "The following chart and text examine the verses in Luke." After looking around a bit, it seems that ChristianIssues (aka Mick) will answer questions/comments on Christian-friendly forums, and not elsewhere.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2011 :  07:11:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Google offers 20-something results for the phrase "The following chart and text examine the verses in Luke." After looking around a bit, it seems that ChristianIssues (aka Mick) will answer questions/comments on Christian-friendly forums, and not elsewhere.
If he won't answer questions here, than he's just spamming us. Why should we put up with it?

I'm going to email him. How he responds will determine what we will do with his membership here.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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sugarino
New Member

33 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2011 :  14:07:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sugarino a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by moakley

Jesus talking to his disciples.
Mark 9:1 "Truly I tell you, some of those standing here will not taste death before they see the Kingdom of God having come in power."

Mark 13:30 "Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away before all these things take place."

As noted previously Jesus was just an early apocalypticist who also got it wrong.
Except you are describing two different events here with these verses.

Mark 9:1 Jesus is referring to Peter, James and John seeing the transfiguration.(in Mark 9:2)

Mark 13:30 is speaking about "this" 'END TIME' generation that would be around for the events he was describing.

Just a little disclaimer: I'm not positive I have this right but it's the only sense I can make out of it.
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ChristianIssues
New Member

Australia
5 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2011 :  16:57:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ChristianIssues's Homepage Send ChristianIssues a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just a note to say that I will start answering your replies. I have not received email notification of any replies to my post and I don't know how to set things to give me a notification. Sorry about that.

God bless,
Mick
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ChristianIssues
New Member

Australia
5 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2011 :  17:05:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ChristianIssues's Homepage Send ChristianIssues a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by H. HumbertSo the end of the world was predicted to occur in their lifetimes.


Hello there. If you go back a little to Mat 24:15 you will see that Jesus says, "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand". [i] What follows after this statement is speaking to 'the reader' who sees the abomination and it is in that readers generation that the end will come.

God bless,
Mick
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ChristianIssues
New Member

Australia
5 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2011 :  21:05:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ChristianIssues's Homepage Send ChristianIssues a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by sugarino

[quote]


Mark 9:1 Jesus is referring to Peter, James and John seeing the transfiguration.(in Mark 9:2)

Mark 13:30 is speaking about "this" 'END TIME' generation that would be around for the events he was describing.

Just a little disclaimer: I'm not positive I have this right but it's the only sense I can make out of it.


I see things the same way Sugarino.

God bless,
Mick
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1888 Posts

Posted - 06/16/2011 :  22:31:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by sugarino

Originally posted by moakley

Jesus talking to his disciples.
Mark 9:1 "Truly I tell you, some of those standing here will not taste death before they see the Kingdom of God having come in power."

Mark 13:30 "Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away before all these things take place."

As noted previously Jesus was just an early apocalypticist who also got it wrong.
Except you are describing two different events here with these verses.

Mark 9:1 Jesus is referring to Peter, James and John seeing the transfiguration.(in Mark 9:2)
Mark 8:38-9:1 are describing the return of the son of man, the return of the Kingdom of God. 9:1 does not describe the transfiguration. 9:2-8 does that where Jesus becomes the bridge between heaven and earth.

Originally posted by sugarino

Mark 13:30 is speaking about "this" 'END TIME' generation that would be around for the events he was describing.
And what was he describing? "The coming of the Son of Man", "The passing of heaven and Earth", essentially the end of times.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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sugarino
New Member

33 Posts

Posted - 06/17/2011 :  13:36:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sugarino a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by moakley

Originally posted by sugarino

Originally posted by moakley

Jesus talking to his disciples.
Mark 9:1 "Truly I tell you, some of those standing here will not taste death before they see the Kingdom of God having come in power."

Mark 13:30 "Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away before all these things take place."

As noted previously Jesus was just an early apocalypticist who also got it wrong.
Except you are describing two different events here with these verses.

Mark 9:1 Jesus is referring to Peter, James and John seeing the transfiguration.(in Mark 9:2)
[quote]Mark 8:38-9:1 are describing the return of the son of man, the return of the Kingdom of God. 9:1 does not describe the transfiguration. 9:2-8 does that where Jesus becomes the bridge between heaven and earth.
What I mean is that some people think that Mark 9:1 is referring to the End time return etc.. But I think when it says:

"And he said to them, `Verily I say to you, That there are certain of those standing here, who may not taste of death till they see the reign of God having come in power.' - (In bold,) he is talking about Peter,James,and John Getting like a glimpse of the reign of God having come in power..

I think this because it mentions that -

"And there appeared to them Elijah with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus." - which is something they did see

and

"7. And there came a cloud overshadowing them, and there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, `This is My Son -- the Beloved, hear ye him;' - which is the reign of God (having come in power)

I know that it's not perfect but this is an ancient book and considering the sequence of events Right after 9:!, Mark 9:2 starts with 'and' like a continuation .. I think the writers intended this as the proper interpretation. It make sense to me and I didn't get this off some Christian website.





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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2011 :  13:46:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by ChristianIssues

Just a note to say that I will start answering your replies. I have not received email notification of any replies to my post and I don't know how to set things to give me a notification. Sorry about that.
If you hadn't just done drive-by spamming, but lingered here lurking/reading you might have noticed that such an option wasn't available to you. And given the number of forums around the internet which have been spammed by you, it's obvious that you've been employing a fire-and-forget tactics. Would you even have noticed our replies if I hadn't sent you an email about the poor ethics in your method of spreading The Word?
Given what I've seen, I do not believe your apology is sincere.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2011 :  14:04:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Harold, is that you?

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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