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SFN Die Hard

3739 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2011 :  15:34:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It saddens me that this thread has gotten so derailed by something so trivial. I read the Mother Jones article that PZ linked to in his blog post. It is pretty horrifying, and provides some very good examples of religious exemptions gone horribly, horribly wrong.

I'm trying to get all the stuff about religious exemptions in general clear in my head. The NY same-sex marriage bill only passed because of religious exemptions. However, when I've read about them, I don't see how they were necessary in the first place. Churches wanted to be protected from having to rent out their spaces to same-sex weddings, and clergy wanted to be protected from having to officiated same-sex marriages. But it is my understanding that private entities such as churches are free to refuse to rent out their spaces or perform services in a way that conflicts with their religion. I'm pretty sure churches don't have to rent out their spaces for Satanist weddings, for example. And Catholic priests turn down marrying couples all the time for things such as one of the couple has been divorced. Of course all of that seems to be a moot point since why the hell would any couple want to get married in a church run by people who openly denounce them?

I used to think that some religious exemptions were okay, but more and more I'm struggling to find any examples of religious exemptions that result in a net benefit to people. Usually the examples I agree with are exemptions I think should apply to EVERYONE, not just religious groups (such as the use of peyote which is legal for certain Native American groups), or they are things where I see no rational reason why religious people should be excused from the secular law (such as when they don't have to get mandatory vaccinations.)

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

9675 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2011 :  05:16:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So... On Fire for Christ doesn't want to acknowledge the existance of the actual topic that massive amounts of abuse are being done to children, and when law makers are penning new laws to put an end to it, Christian organizations starts yelling victimhood and persecution for not being able to continue their child-abuse in Jesus' name.

Rather than commenting on the hypocricy and irony of it all, or the evilness of abusing children in those many Christian "re-education camps", On Fire for Christ would rather manufacture something else to discuss in order to distract from the original topic.

Obviously, On Fire for Christ is embarrassed by his fellow brothers and sisters in Christ both for the abuse children have been put through, as well as the massive hypocricy of claiming religious exemption in order to continue to spread "the love of Christ". And to me, that's perfactly understandable. It's embarrasing as hell. But avoiding takning about it doesn't make the issue go away. A lot of evil stuff is being done in the name of Jesus, and On Fire for Christ's and other christians' silence is taken as a silent consent to what is being done to children.
Unanimity is complete agreement by all people in a given situation. When unanimous, everybody is of same mind and acting together as one. Many groups consider unanimous decisions a sign of agreement, solidarity, and unity. Unanimity may be assumed explicitly after a unanimous vote or implicitly by a lack of objections.
Emphasis above mine.

The only conclusion that makes sense to me is that OFfC approve of the abuse and the demand for religious exemption, but does not want to explicitly state such an unpopular opinion in this forum.

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"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

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Snuggle Wolf

1457 Posts

Posted - 08/24/2011 :  21:06:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A local author, Michele Ulriksen, published a book about her ordeal of being whisked away to a reform school in Oregon called Victory. Her book is Reform at Victory. Sadly she killed herself a few months ago.
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