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Skeptic Friend

123 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2011 :  13:00:17  Show Profile Send teched246 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The following passage is from the Dead Sea Scrolls (4Q 535 Manuscript B)

"I saw Watchers in my vision, the dream-vision. Two men were fighting over me...holding a great contest over me. I asked them, 'Who are you, that you are thus empowered over me?' They answered, 'We have been empowered and rule over all mankind.' They said to me, 'Which of us do you choose to rule you?' I raised my eyes and looked. One of them was terrifying in his appearance, like a SERPENT, his cloak, many-colored yet very dark....And I looked again, and in his appearance, HIS EYES LIKE A VIPER -- The Testament of Amram

These same entities also appear in ancient egyptian texts long before Judaism and Christianity:

Pyramid Texts Utterance 373
"...The hidden ones worship you,
The great ones surround you,
The WATCHERS wait on you,
Barley is threshed for you,
Emmer is reaped for you,
Your monthly feasts are made with it,..."

As im on the subject of the egyptian religion and Judaism I should point out that Satan is to Lucifer what Set is to Apep. Apep, the serpent, was sometimes interchanged or conflated with Set (who, too, was a serpent), which explains why Satan and Lucifer are often treated as the same entity, while some stories feature Set and Apep as being cohorts, partners, or even enemies.

Isis and Osiris -- serpent gods

So we have the serpent cult of Osiris (Judaism), the serpent cult of Horus (Christianity), the serpent cult of Isis (Catholocism), the serpent cult of Set (Satanism), and the serpent cult of Apep (Luciferianism)... rival serpent cults all over the place. Why?

Here we have an Annunaki goddess (serpent goddess) made from clay about 4000 BC. This is the first image of a mother feeding her baby. From this we get:

Isis and Horus (god-incarnate)

Semiramus and Tammuz(god incarnate)

Devaki and Krishna (god incarnate)

Hera and Hercules

Greek Goddess and Child (450-440 BC)

....and many others leading up to :

Virgin Mary suckling Jesus (god incarnate and demi-god)

The prevalence of serpent worship in all religions is apparent.

Quezacoatl, the SUN GOD of the Mayans; the feathered SERPENT GOD.


What would make the Mayans (and aztecs) depict the sun as a serpent humanoid? How did this isolated civilazation get these concepts of associating a god with the cross and giving the symbol religious significance when they were already prevalent in various cultures separate in both time and location? Where did these primitive people aquire their advanced knowledge in astronomy and engineering (like the eygptians before them, the Mayans built pyramids that we, with all of our so-called "cutting edge" technology, cannot duplicate or would have extreme difficulty doing so).

MEET QUEZACOATL, the SUN GOD of the Mayans; the feathered SERPENT GOD

Here's a image of the Mayans offering food to this SUN GOD

This is what people have called dragons, nagas, the annunaki, the star gods, the serpent gods, a sun or moon god, the watchers, demons, angels, djinns, vampires etc. This is what billions of religious zealots have been worshipping in churches, mosques, and temples every day for aeons. Welcome to your world

C'mon Kil...I know you're reading this and just bursting with ridicule.

"For all things have been baptized in the well of eternity and are beyond good
and evil; and good and evil themselves are but intervening shadows and damp
depressions and drifting clouds.Verily, it is a blessing and not a blasphemy
when I teach: ‘Over all things stand the heaven Accident, the heaven
Innocence, the heaven Chance, the heaven Prankishness." -Nietzsche

Edited by - teched246 on 08/28/2011 13:04:42

H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

4574 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2011 :  13:36:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You could probably compile a similar list about turtles in mythology. What's you're point?

"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2011 :  13:59:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ummm, I guessing, He's pointing out there were ignorant theists back then too? Who accepted and spread made up supernatural explanations for shit they didn't understand. SS

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

26014 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2011 :  14:07:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by teched246

C'mon Kil...I know you're reading this and just bursting with ridicule.
Well, I'm not Kil, but without a clearly stated hypothesis or conclusion, I have no idea what you're trying to convey, so there's little to do but ridicule the claims that you do make:
How did this isolated civilazation get these concepts of associating a god with the cross and giving the symbol religious significance when they were already prevalent in various cultures separate in both time and location?
Yes, a cross is such a difficult symbol to make that it's unthinkable that two different religions would ever take up different versions of it. Go figure.
Where did these primitive people aquire their advanced knowledge in astronomy and engineering...
Now there's the racism I've come to expect from these sorts of arguments. What you're saying is that the Mayans were too stupid to learn these things on their own. On what do you base that?
(like the eygptians before them, the Mayans built pyramids that we, with all of our so-called "cutting edge" technology, cannot duplicate or would have extreme difficulty doing so).
Where's your evidence for that claim?

Of course, the obvious implication is that the Mayans and Egyptians got help from non-human sources. After all, if we white folk can't do what they did, it can't be because these ancient brown people figured out things that we haven't yet. So they must have been visited by aliens.

Somebody has been watching too much In Search Of...

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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SFN Die Hard

6891 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2011 :  14:13:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Have you seen the building in the UAE? It will be in the new mission impossible movie. Because I'm pretty sure Mayans couldn't build that building.

Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Evil Skeptic

13470 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2011 :  14:36:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How Were The Egyptian Pyramids Built?

…For centuries, people have theorized how the great pyramids were built. Some have suggested that they must have been constructed by extraterrestrials, while others believe the Egyptians possessed a technology that has been lost through the ages.

But the process of building pyramids, while complicated, was not as colossal an undertaking as many of us believe, Redford says. Estimates suggest that between 20,000 and 30,000 laborers were needed to build the Great Pyramid at Giza in less than 23 years. By comparison, Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris took almost 200 years to complete.

According to Redford, pharaohs traditionally began building their pyramids as soon as they took the throne. The pharaoh would first establish a committee composed of an overseer of construction, a chief engineer and an architect. The pyramids were usually placed on the western side of the Nile because the pharaoh's soul was meant to join with the sun disc during its descent before continuing with the sun in its eternal round. Added Redford, the two deciding factors when choosing a building site were its orientation to the western horizon where the sun set and the proximity to Memphis, the central city of ancient Egypt.

The cores of the pyramids were often composed of local limestone, said Redford. Finer quality limestone composed the outer layer of the pyramids, giving them a white sheen that could be seen from miles away. The capstone was usually made of granite, basalt, or another very hard stone and could be plated with gold, silver or electrum, an alloy of gold and silver, and would also be highly reflective in the bright sun…

…During excavation, massive dolerite "pounders" were used to pulverize the stone around the edge of the granite block that needed to be extracted. According to Redford, 60 to 70 men would pound out the stone. At the bottom, they rammed wooden pegs into slots they had cut, and filled the slots with water. The pegs would expand, splitting the stone, and the block was then slid down onto a waiting boat.

Teams of oxen or manpower were used to drag the stones on a prepared slipway that was lubricated with oil. Said Redford, a scene from a 19th century B.C. tomb in Middle Egypt depicts "an alabaster statue 20 feet high pulled by 173 men on four ropes with a man lubricating the slipway as the pulling went on."

Once the stones were at the construction site, ramps were built to get them into place on the pyramid, said Redford. These ramps were made of mud brick and coated with chips of plaster to harden the surface. "If they consistently raised the ramp course by course as the teams dragged their blocks up, they could have gotten them into place fairly easily," he noted. At least one such ramp still exists, he said…


Who Built the Pyramids?

NOVA: In your extensive work and research at Giza have you ever once questioned whether humans built the Pyramids?

Mark Lehner: No. But have I ever questioned whether they had divine or super-intelligent inspiration? I first went to Egypt in 1972 and ended up living there 13 years. I was imbued with ideas of Atlantis and Edgar Cayce and so on. So I went over, starting from that point of view, but everything I saw told me, day by day, year by year, that they were very human and the marks of humanity are everywhere on them.

And you see there's this curious reversal where sometimes New Age theorists say that Egyptologists and archeologists are denigrating the ancient culture. They sometimes put up a scarecrow argument that we say they were primitive. And the New Agers sometimes want to say these were very technologically sophisticated people who built these things; they were not primitive. Well, actually there's a certain irony here, because they say they were very sophisticated technological civilizations and societies that built the Pyramids and the Sphinx, and yet they weren't the ones that we find. So to me, it's these suggestions that are really denigrating the people whose names, bodies, family relationships, tools, and bakeries we actually find.

Everything that I have found convinces me more and more that indeed it is this society that built the Sphinx and the Pyramids. Every time I go back to Giza my respect increases for those people and that society, that they could do it. You see, to me it's even more fascinating that they did this. And that by doing this they contributed something to the human career and its overall development. Rather than just copping out and saying, "There's no way they could have done this." I think that denigrates the people whose evidence we actually find…


How Pyramids Work

… A pyramid is a geometrical solid with a square base and four equilateral triangular sides, the most structurally stable shape for projects involving large amounts of stone or masonry. Pyramids of various types, sizes and complexities were built in many parts of the ancient world (like Central America, Greece, China and Egypt). In thehistory of Egypt and China, they were primarily tombs and monuments to kings and leaders. The pyramids of theMayans and Aztecs of Central America were mainly religious temples, though some of them housed burial chambers.

The Central American pyramids were smaller and sometimes wider than their Egyptian counterparts. These pyramids also took longer to finish -- they were often built and modified over hundreds of years, while Egyptian pyramids took a couple of decades to construct. Pyramids in Central America were integrated into Aztec and Mayan cities, whereas Egyptian pyramids were located away from the major cities...

I don’t see any reason to assume that this was a shared technology that the Myans and the Egyptians couldn’t have developed independently of each other. Since the pyramids are different, and are even built for different functions, it’s a serious leap to think that they must have had some common origin. Furthermore, why is it that because it was long ago, you think these cultures were primitive? Sure, they didn’t have powertools. But neither did the builders of many of the great structures that we see all over Europe, Asia, and America. We know how the Great Wall was built, and surely it rivals anything done by the pyramid builders. There are Japanese builders who do perfect mortis and tenon structure building without the use of any of the tools we have at our disposal today, and they do a better job of it than most of us do here even when using nails, bolts and modern tools. Why do you assume something that is unnecessary, teched246?

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2011 :  05:50:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I find it hard to believe that two different groups who use stone as their primary building materials could possibly come to the conclusion that the only way to make a tall structure is in pyramid form.

Good to know that the aliens who came here in interstellar spaceships can handle stone-age construction techniques.

Let me know when they find a plastic pyramid in the sand, next thing you know you'll tell me fire was discovered in two places independently.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 08/29/2011 05:51:21
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SFN Regular

894 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2011 :  06:52:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ebone4rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I find it rather unclear what your point is.

What would make the Mayans (and aztecs) depict the sun as a serpent humanoid? How did this isolated civilazation get these concepts of associating a god with the cross and giving the symbol religious significance when they were already prevalent in various cultures separate in both time and location? Where did these primitive people aquire their advanced knowledge in astronomy and engineering (like the eygptians before them, the Mayans built pyramids that we, with all of our so-called "cutting edge" technology, cannot duplicate or would have extreme difficulty doing so).

Why couldn't they come up with these ideas on their own? Serpents are common. The cross is a simple shape. I also do not think there would be any kind of a problem with engineering these buildings here in modern times. Finding enough people willing to do the labor might be tough though.

Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

9680 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2011 :  07:59:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, come on... everybody knows that the pyramids are landing-platforms for alinen spaceships. More specifically, Goa'uld motherships.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
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