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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
 Posted - 10/30/2011 : 16:20:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by flanagan1000
He also gives an intersting response to a question on the record:
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No. He hasn't said anything interesting. He especially has not said anything concrete. The only thing he is doing in this response is blaming our failure to notice anything different on us. That is not interesting unless you are redefining interesting as being a complete fraud and a liar. He is a con-man and congratulations on being a sucker.
The problem is simple.. Expecting it to happen for you. That has been the mindset of those who see this as a failure, it’s completely the opposite.
A lot has changed, but looking for the change around you, you’ll never find it.
Read throughout the record and understand some others experiences and how they differ from yours.
It is still completely possible to understand this, even now.
As I’ve said, the date is a symbol. What does it represent for you personally? How does your results compare to a lot of other results you have throughout your life? Understanding that is what moves you to what others are understanding now. |
Open is the one making the claim "a lot has changed" and then doesn't say what that change is.
Ask yourself this: Why the amazing growth in people who are seeking answers to questions they themselves do even know how to ask?
Is it just a coincidence?
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A lot of people are normally seeking answers to questions. Unless he can show that a much higher number of people are seeking answers than is normal, then this is just a part of the con. Not even a coincidence, it's normal, he is a fraud.
| It is there, you can find it. |
But if "a lot has changed", I shouldn't have to find it, it should be obvious. He is lying to you. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2011 : 16:35:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Valiant Dancer.....
The wikipedia says, in part:| Wicca is typically a duotheistic religion, worshipping a goddess and a god, who are traditionally viewed as the Triple Goddess and Horned God. These two deities are often viewed as being facets of a greater pantheistic godhead, and as manifesting themselves as various polytheistic deities. |
I am sure that you personally don't go along with any of that monkeyshit, from your postings you certainly appear to be highly intelligent, well informed, and a rather sophisticated skeptic.
Where can I read of the iteration of the Wicca religion to which you subscribe?
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www.cog.org
While typically classed by others as a duotheistic religion, it is not. It is a monotheistic religion which the male and female aspects of the creative force mirrors the duality seen in most of the natural world. The polytheistic dieties are actually more in tune with the particular aspect that the person is trying to improve in their lives. Something to aspire towards (but understanding that the perfection represented by the God(dess) concept is unobtainable.).
I also seperate this aspect of my life from skeptic argumentation. Little tricks I use for self improvement have the power I give them for changes on myself alone. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 10/30/2011 16:38:32 |
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flanagan1000
Banned
413 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2011 : 15:53:56 [Permalink]
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I've just found out that the video The Quickening had a an earlie release called Revalations. It does not predict asny dates, but it talks about the illusion of dualisitc reality, the change in spiritual growth, people being trapped in this dualist world, and so forth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC27DSSMryI
Unlike The Quickening, this is only one 40 minutes. It attacks new age teachers, and gives a different way of spiritual growth. |
| Edited by - flanagan1000 on 10/31/2011 15:55:52 |
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flanagan1000
Banned
413 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 08:26:10 [Permalink]
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The wensite has updated - the front page now says:
Proof of what you're capable of. Reach belief, 1 gets you there, 4 proves no illusion. You can still.
Then on the recrd page, he made this post:
I will get to everyone as soon as I possibly can. I’m not creating another website, and I have not left this one, nor will I.
I will mention this again: This is not, and never will be a prank or trick played on anyone. The experiences people are having are real, read them here.. That is powerful, yet many still can’t see what’s going on here.
As for my post earlier about the pattern of posts being made here, remember, belief without doubt. Apply that to what you’ve seen, dreamt and learned, and you have everything.
edit:
Also I would like to say thank you to those who stuck by this message during the continual attacks and negativity of “viral marketing”, and cult practices. That takes some serious insight and wisdom to understand that just from experiencing pictures, ideas, and your fellow humans to hold a belief that no person ever spoke of. Think about how powerful that actually is.
It isn’t over, let it help you.
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http://record.oct282011.com/?p=1271
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 09:48:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by flanagan1000
The wensite has updated - the front page now says:
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And he is still saying nothing of value.
That is powerful, yet many still can’t see what’s going on here.
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Yes we can.
As for my post earlier about the pattern of posts being made here, remember, belief without doubt. ...
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... is a requirement.
That takes some serious insight and wisdom to understand that just from experiencing pictures, ideas, and your fellow humans to hold a belief that no person ever spoke of. Think about how powerful that actually is.
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So which is it "belief without doubt" or "serious insight and wisdom"? Can't be both. The former has no use for the later and visa-versa.
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Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 09:50:02 [Permalink]
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Originally quoted by flanagan1000
...belief without doubt... |
Standard call for authoritarian domgatism. It may all be make-believe, but that sort of thinking is very dangerous. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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flanagan1000
Banned
413 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 10:46:48 [Permalink]
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| Do you think ths guy is trying to create a cult? |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 10:58:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by flanagan1000
Do you think ths guy is trying to create a cult?
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Yes. The one that makes money for him. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 11:01:08 [Permalink]
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Valiant Dancer.....
Thanks for your reply.
From www.cog.com as op.cit.:
WITCHCRAFTA Spiritual and Ethical Overview
Witchcraft is a life-affirming, earth- and nature-oriented religion which sees all of life as sacred and interconnected, honors the natural world as the embodiment of divinity, immanent as well as transcendent, and experiences the divine as feminine and often as masculine, as well. Like the spiritual world view and practices of Native Americans and Taoists, Wiccan spiritual practices are intended to attune humanity to the natural rhythms and cycles of the universe as a means of personally experiencing divinity. Rituals, therefore, coincide with the phases of the moon, the change of the seasons, solstices and equinoxes and days which fall in between these such as May Day and Halloween. This calendar of celebrations is referred to as the Wheel of the Year. Most Witches consider their practice a priest/esshood, akin to the mystery schools of classical Greece and Rome, involving years of training and passage through life-transforming initiatory rituals. |
Then is it a fair assumption that you, as a self-described Wiccan, accept and believe the precepts and ideation described above? You state:| It is a monotheistic religion which the male and female aspects of the creative force mirrors the duality seen in most of the natural world. The polytheistic dieties are actually more in tune with the particular aspect that the person is trying to improve in their lives. Something to aspire towards (but understanding that the perfection represented by the God(dess) concept is unobtainable.). |
Do the "polytheistic deities" mentioned above evidentially and demonstrably actually exist, or are these metaphorical concepts?| I also seperate this aspect of my life from skeptic argumentation. |
Does this separation entail suspension of your "skeptic argumentation" cognitive abilities whilst acting and thinking as a Wiccan? Something like a Catholic scientist experiencing (momentarily) the cheap wine and hardtack of the Eucharist as the actual blood and flesh of Christ, and then returning from church to his work at CERN?
Would you describe Wiccan as a belief system in the same sense that the Abrahamic religions, Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Shinto, the diaspora of superstitions with African roots, etc. ad infinitum -- in the same sense that all these are usually described as belief systems?
Is Wiccan properly described as a Religion or a Faith, in the exact same sense that the above belief systems are?
If so, should Wiccan be subject to the same rigorous analytical appraisal by Skeptics as are the superstitions of Catholicism, Mormanism, Rastafari and Pastafari (the Holy Father FSM) for example?
I have written extensively on the subject of human perception, and I am currently searching for understanding of that which accurately describes the perception of the supernatural by Wiccans. You are the only Wiccan with whom I have had any correspondence, and I would appreciate any details that you might care to reveal concerning your unusual beliefs.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 11:59:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Valiant Dancer.....
Thanks for your reply.
From www.cog.com as op.cit.:
WITCHCRAFTA Spiritual and Ethical Overview
Witchcraft is a life-affirming, earth- and nature-oriented religion which sees all of life as sacred and interconnected, honors the natural world as the embodiment of divinity, immanent as well as transcendent, and experiences the divine as feminine and often as masculine, as well. Like the spiritual world view and practices of Native Americans and Taoists, Wiccan spiritual practices are intended to attune humanity to the natural rhythms and cycles of the universe as a means of personally experiencing divinity. Rituals, therefore, coincide with the phases of the moon, the change of the seasons, solstices and equinoxes and days which fall in between these such as May Day and Halloween. This calendar of celebrations is referred to as the Wheel of the Year. Most Witches consider their practice a priest/esshood, akin to the mystery schools of classical Greece and Rome, involving years of training and passage through life-transforming initiatory rituals. |
Then is it a fair assumption that you, as a self-described Wiccan, accept and believe the precepts and ideation described above?
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The language is imprecise, but is close enough. "personally experiencing divinity" is imprecise. More precise would be addressing the divine and searching for answers within.
You state:| It is a monotheistic religion which the male and female aspects of the creative force mirrors the duality seen in most of the natural world. The polytheistic dieties are actually more in tune with the particular aspect that the person is trying to improve in their lives. Something to aspire towards (but understanding that the perfection represented by the God(dess) concept is unobtainable.). |
Do the "polytheistic deities" mentioned above evidentially and demonstrably actually exist, or are these metaphorical concepts?
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They do not actually exist and there is no evidence for them to exist. However, the concepts that they embody (through literature and scientific study of the ancient belief systems) such as patience and wisdom are the things that are used during those personal rituals. The God(dess) names is merely a shortcut to the aspect desired.
| I also seperate this aspect of my life from skeptic argumentation. |
Does this separation entail suspension of your "skeptic argumentation" cognitive abilities whilst acting and thinking as a Wiccan? Something like a Catholic scientist experiencing (momentarily) the cheap wine and hardtack of the Eucharist as the actual blood and flesh of Christ, and then returning from church to his work at CERN?
Would you describe Wiccan as a belief system in the same sense that the Abrahamic religions, Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Shinto, the diaspora of superstitions with African roots, etc. ad infinitum -- in the same sense that all these are usually described as belief systems?
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It is a belief system with a few central tenents with many denominations depending on selected pantheon and opinion on non-core beliefs.
Is Wiccan properly described as a Religion or a Faith, in the exact same sense that the above belief systems are?
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It can be described as a religion.
If so, should Wiccan be subject to the same rigorous analytical appraisal by Skeptics as are the superstitions of Catholicism, Mormanism, Rastafari and Pastafari (the Holy Father FSM) for example?
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If anyone from that religion is stupid enough to claim that what is being practiced is demonstrably true, then they should be subject to the exact same rigorous analytical appraisal. Otherwise, they are merely stating opinion acknoledging that they have no evidence to back the opinion up.
I have written extensively on the subject of human perception, and I am currently searching for understanding of that which accurately describes the perception of the supernatural by Wiccans. You are the only Wiccan with whom I have had any correspondence, and I would appreciate any details that you might care to reveal concerning your unusual beliefs.
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That is one of those things that is faith based. I can sum up some of it but it is not scientific nor does it have any empirical evidence to support it.
There are several basic themes
The universe is made of energy and all that energy is interconnected.
Sub point under energy: What ever energy you put out you get back. Put out good and good will return to you. Put out bad and bad will return to you. This is a view on Karma.
The future is not fixed. As we make decisions, we change the future. As others make decisions, they change the future.
There is a cycle of life from birth to death to rebirth. This cycle repeats until all the lessons life can teach us about how to be a better person are learned. Then the "soul" moves on to the next level. While this level exists, no one knows what it will be like or what happens there. (Ghosts fit in here as those who have died but have chosen not to go to the Summerlands.) The Summerlands are open to all dead (belief in Wicca not required) where they are rejuvinated while resting before being reborn again.
Divination is a way to determine in which direction our life is traveling. It is up to us to embark on changing it to the best of our ability.
So in these ways, Wiccans deal with supernatural things as an extension of natural things. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 16:50:58 [Permalink]
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Valiant Dancer.....
| The language is imprecise, but is close enough. "personally experiencing divinity" is imprecise. More precise would be addressing the divine and searching for answers within. |
Then, in your purview, "The Divine" actually does exist?| However, the concepts that they embody (through literature and scientific study of the ancient belief systems) such as patience and wisdom are the things that are used during those personal rituals. |
Is it appropriate to call these recepts metaphorical, or strictly literary concepts? | The God(dess) names is merely a shortcut to the aspect desired. |
Then God (or god) is a language construct only? Not any form or aspect of reality? In other words, does God exist, to a Wiccan, in the same reality of existence that our senses reveal to us as the physical world?| If anyone from that religion is stupid enough to claim that what is being practiced is demonstrably true, then they should be subject to the exact same rigorous analytical appraisal. |
Do you, as a Wiccan, believe that what you practice is not true? If so, is that not a form of self-hypocrisy?| The universe is made of energy and all that energy is interconnected. |
Is the "energy" that you refer to here identical to the concept and definition of energy as defined by the contemporary science of particle physics?| Sub point under energy: What ever energy you put out you get back. Put out good and good will return to you. Put out bad and bad will return to you. This is a view on Karma. |
How does a human being put out or get back energy? Muscular movement, the metabolism of nutrition, etc.?; or do you posit a different meaning for the word "energy"?Is Karma a demonstrable aspect of reality?| The future is not fixed. As we make decisions, we change the future. As others make decisions, they change the future. |
If no sentient beings existed in the universe, would there be a "future" as described by you?| There is a cycle of life from birth to death to rebirth. This cycle repeats until all the lessons life can teach us about how to be a better person are learned. Then the "soul" moves on to the next level. |
Is this not pretty much the same mystique of reincarnation as that taught in Hinduism, Sikhism and Kabbalah; with the proviso that each reincarnation is in some way an improvement on the previous life? I gather that belief in a "soul" is central to Wicca. Is this correct?| While this level exists, no one knows what it will be like or what happens there. |
Possibly a similarity here to the Hindi Nirvana, Christian Heaven, or Islamic Janna?| (Ghosts fit in here as those who have died but have chosen not to go to the Summerlands.) |
As in the Abrahamic Purgatory, but without the mandatory improvement required by Catholic liturgy. Ghosts do tend to stretch my credulity a bit. | Divination is a way to determine in which direction our life is traveling. |
The paths of such direction as offered or provided by some sort of Higher Power than man? Like God. And free will?
I do not clearly understand the conceptual differences between Christian, Islamic, Judaic, etc. superstitions; and those of Wicca.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 06:20:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Valiant Dancer.....
| The language is imprecise, but is close enough. "personally experiencing divinity" is imprecise. More precise would be addressing the divine and searching for answers within. |
Then, in your purview, "The Divine" actually does exist?
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The Divine is assumed to exist. Tends to be a major staple of all religions.
| However, the concepts that they embody (through literature and scientific study of the ancient belief systems) such as patience and wisdom are the things that are used during those personal rituals. |
Is it appropriate to call these recepts metaphorical, or strictly literary concepts?
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These are the God(dess) names which are a way to quickly sum up archetypes of behavior. More metaphorical, really.
| The God(dess) names is merely a shortcut to the aspect desired. |
Then God (or god) is a language construct only? Not any form or aspect of reality? In other words, does God exist, to a Wiccan, in the same reality of existence that our senses reveal to us as the physical world?
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No. The God(dess) is a part of a assumed spiritual being.
| If anyone from that religion is stupid enough to claim that what is being practiced is demonstrably true, then they should be subject to the exact same rigorous analytical appraisal. |
Do you, as a Wiccan, believe that what you practice is not true? If so, is that not a form of self-hypocrisy?
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No. I feel that my spiritual path is the path that is true for me.
| The universe is made of energy and all that energy is interconnected. |
Is the "energy" that you refer to here identical to the concept and definition of energy as defined by the contemporary science of particle physics?
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No. It is more of a spiritual life-force energy.
| Sub point under energy: What ever energy you put out you get back. Put out good and good will return to you. Put out bad and bad will return to you. This is a view on Karma. |
How does a human being put out or get back energy? Muscular movement, the metabolism of nutrition, etc.?; or do you posit a different meaning for the word "energy"?
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More the spiritual force here. Actions are considered to be energized unconsciously with life-force energy. Do good things or try to do good things, and good things will happen to you.
Is Karma a demonstrable aspect of reality?
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Not really. The concept is coached in terms of no time limit.
| The future is not fixed. As we make decisions, we change the future. As others make decisions, they change the future. |
If no sentient beings existed in the universe, would there be a "future" as described by you?
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Yes. The point being presented is that Wiccans do not believe in the concept of fate. Empowering their adherents to go out and make a difference for themselves and others.
| There is a cycle of life from birth to death to rebirth. This cycle repeats until all the lessons life can teach us about how to be a better person are learned. Then the "soul" moves on to the next level. |
Is this not pretty much the same mystique of reincarnation as that taught in Hinduism, Sikhism and Kabbalah; with the proviso that each reincarnation is in some way an improvement on the previous life? I gather that belief in a "soul" is central to Wicca. Is this correct?
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Similar. Improvement must come from within. A soul may take several iterations to learn a single lesson.
| While this level exists, no one knows what it will be like or what happens there. |
Possibly a similarity here to the Hindi Nirvana, Christian Heaven, or Islamic Janna?
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More towards the concept of Nirvana which is a merging with the divine. It really isn't something that is considered obtainable in a single iteration.
| (Ghosts fit in here as those who have died but have chosen not to go to the Summerlands.) |
As in the Abrahamic Purgatory, but without the mandatory improvement required by Catholic liturgy. Ghosts do tend to stretch my credulity a bit.
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Not really. More like confusion or not being able to let go. It is a minor point about souls and not central to the religion.
| Divination is a way to determine in which direction our life is traveling. |
The paths of such direction as offered or provided by some sort of Higher Power than man? Like God. And free will?
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No. These are paths of the individual. The belief is that one's life energy shows into the future that they currently are going to.
This is a rather difficult subject to convey. The idea that there are infinate alternate realities based on the permutations and combinations of all human action and decisions. As those actions and decisions are taken, the alternate realities that are precluded by the decision cease to exist. Divination shows the current path up to six months in advance. Before any divination, the practioner either has been taught or told that it only describes how things will be if nothing changes.
I do not clearly understand the conceptual differences between Christian, Islamic, Judaic, etc. superstitions; and those of Wicca.
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We are a bit more Easterized than the Abrahamic religions. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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flanagan1000
Banned
413 Posts |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2011 : 21:51:35 [Permalink]
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Flan, study this because this effects all of us, particularly you....
http://www.wimp.com/pentatonicscale/
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1489 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2011 : 15:51:16 [Permalink]
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Ah yes, the old "uneasy feeling that something is wrong". Welcome to your evolved primate body and brain that can be susceptible to fear mongering.
Cool!
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Is a major event going to happen on 28th October?
