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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  16:45:38  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just might join FB over this. As I said elsewhere and several times, this is on the top of my list as to what I think is driving a lot what is wrong in Washington, corporate money in politics. I what this to be corrected big time.
Basic Info


Name:
"We the People" NOT "We the Corporations"
Category:
Common Interest - Politics
Description:
Corporations are not people. We stand opposed to allowing corporations the same political campaign rights as living, breathing humans. We DEMAND congress take IMMEDIATE action to amend the constitution if necessary to end this practice.
Privacy Type:
Open: All content is public.

Recent News


News:
Sign these petitions today!

Save America!
http://salsa.mydccc.org/o/30019/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=4&tag=redirect

Petition for Constitutional Amendment from "Private Citizen"
http://www.citizen.org/

Supreme Court eases restrictions on corporate campaign spending
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/21/campaign.finance.ruling/index.html?hpt=T1
Sign those petitions, please.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2011 :  18:46:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Only one of them is signable. And I signed it. I have already "liked" that facebook page.

Corporate money in politics is a major concern of OWS.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2011 :  06:48:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Only one of them is signable. And I signed it. I have already "liked" that facebook page.

Corporate money in politics is a major concern of OWS.


I will believe a corporation is a person when Texas executes a CEO for running one into insolvency.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9675 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2011 :  16:39:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm with Valiant Dancer on this. Enron executives should be tried for murder. To begin with.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2011 :  18:03:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

Originally posted by Kil

Only one of them is signable. And I signed it. I have already "liked" that facebook page.

Corporate money in politics is a major concern of OWS.


I will believe a corporation is a person when Texas executes a CEO for running one into insolvency.
W?

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9675 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2011 :  21:57:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why not? It's a good start, given the damage he's done to the world...

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  06:25:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

Originally posted by Kil

Only one of them is signable. And I signed it. I have already "liked" that facebook page.

Corporate money in politics is a major concern of OWS.


I will believe a corporation is a person when Texas executes a CEO for running one into insolvency.
W?


For the housing bubble and economic slowdown or for the companies he has mismanaged?

I'd say put him in jail for the corporations he has mismanaged. Not for his actions as President.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  08:40:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
For the housing bubble and economic slowdown or for the companies he has mismanaged?

I'd say put him in jail for the corporations he has mismanaged. Not for his actions as President.
That's what I thought you were alluding to.

The Failed Corporate Record of George W. Bush
As explained by Kevin Phillips in his book, American Dynasty: Aristocracy, Fortune, and the Politics of Deceit in the House of Bush, George W. Bush's businesses fail but he makes millions. Among Mr. Bush's business ventures:

Arbusto, an oil exploration company, lost money, but it got considerable investments (nearly $5 million) because even losing oil investments were useful as tax shelters.
Spectrum 7 Energy Corp. bought out Arbusto in 1984 and hired Mr. Bush to run the company's oil interests in Midland, Texas. The oil business collapsed as oil prices plummeted by 1986, and Spectrum 7 Energy was near failure.

Harken Energy acquired Mr. Bush's Spectrum 7 Energy shares, and he got Harken shares, a directorship, and a consulting arrangement in return. Harken, under Bush, brought in Saudi real estate tycoon Sheikh Abdullah Bakhsh as a board member and a major investor. Over the next few years, Harken would turn out to have links to: Saudi money, CIA-connected Filipinos, the Harvard Endowment, the emir of Bahrain, and the shadowy Bank of Credit and Commerce International.

A 1991 internal SEC document suggested George W. Bush violated federal securities law at least 4 times in the late 1980s and early 1990s in selling Harken stock while serving as a director of Harken. This is essentially the same kind of activity that Martha Stewart is going to prison over. Except at the time of the investigation, Mr. Bush's father was president and the case was quietly dropped.

In his book, Worse Than Watergate: The Secret Presidency of George W. Bush, John W. Dean explains that his family name and his father's prominence were significant factors in George W. Bush's business "success", or, were significant factors in repeated saves from serious business and financial failures. Both Arbusto/Bush Exploration and Spectrum 7 failed with Bush as chairman and CEO. At Harken, Mr. Bush was relieved of day-to-day management responsibilities but still served on the board of directors.


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  10:24:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Definition, impunity imĚpuĚniĚty ( m-py n -t ). n. pl. imĚpuĚniĚties. 1. Exemption from punishment, penalty, or harm. 2. wealth 3. The wealthy

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend

Hong Kong
380 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  19:16:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chefcrsh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This thread seems to be veering into the very silly. Lets all keep in mind that incorporation is not a benefit reserved only for huge greedy mindless faceless multinational mega businesses. It is a benefit of law many small business owners, social groups, housing communities, towns, cities, unions, NGOs and, well, all manner of cooperative groups benefit from. The Corporate "personhood" or corporation as entity is legal necessity, in that the incorporated entity must be able to enter legal agreements with all manner of other independent legal entities (such as states and federal governments, trash collectors, water supply departments, electric companies), ad infinitum.

The tricky bit is (and has always been) determining what rights should be granted to corporations and which should be reserved for human individuals. Actually we still can't seem to agree on what set of rights are afforded all human individuals (think of gay marriage) let alone what rights should be reserved exclusive to them. So it should come as no surprise that there is an untidy borderland to rights of any kind and class, corporate rights included.

It should also be noted that statistically for every corrupt CEO there are millions of them (like me) quietly going about trying to keep afloat, provide jobs, provide goods and services, and maybe, if we are lucky make a few percent on our life-savings investment.

Finally, lest your union or your city lose it's right to a voice in elections, lets not throw the baby out with the Ken Lay...uhm, bath water.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26007 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  21:14:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chefcrsh

Finally, lest your union or your city lose it's right to a voice in elections...
But that's exactly the question: why does a union or a city (or your corporation) need a voice in an election?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend

Hong Kong
380 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  22:45:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chefcrsh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I certainly cant speak for any or all of them, but I would ask the question the other way round. Why should certain groups be expressly excluded from public discourse, including a voice in public politics and elections? And where does one draw the line, does OWS get a voice? If yes to them why no to another group?
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26007 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  23:07:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chefcrsh

I certainly cant speak for any or all of them, but I would ask the question the other way round. Why should certain groups be expressly excluded from public discourse, including a voice in public politics and elections? And where does one draw the line, does OWS get a voice? If yes to them why no to another group?
What group does Exxon represent when it petitions Congress? Exxon can't vote, and Exxon can't run for office. Why should any group that cannot cast a single vote as a group have a voice in an election?

Why don't we draw the line there? When Citibank gets a voter registration card, then Citibank can lobby Congress. Until then, if the CEO of Citibank wants to go to Capitol Hill, he can do so on his own dime, just like Citibank's janitors.

Is OWS incorporated? Or is it just a bunch of individuals?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend

Hong Kong
380 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  23:16:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chefcrsh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well it seems to be straying from having a voice in elections to lobbying and, well I'm not sure what else... I had thought the concern over corporate personhood was about incorporated groups fundraising for their candidates, or otherwise making statements/commercials, etc on political/election issues as well as advertising either for or against certain candidates.

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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend

Hong Kong
380 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  23:19:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chefcrsh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.
Exxon can't vote, and Exxon can't run for office. Why should any group that cannot cast a single vote as a group have a voice in an election?


So felons should be prohibited from both voting and free political speech? They are a group prohibited from voting, but why prohibit their speech as well? If not them where is the line drawn?
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2011 :  23:54:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chefcrsh

I certainly cant speak for any or all of them, but I would ask the question the other way round. Why should certain groups be expressly excluded from public discourse, including a voice in public politics and elections? And where does one draw the line, does OWS get a voice? If yes to them why no to another group?
Each person in OWS gets a vote. You get a vote. The CEO of Goldman Sacks gets a vote, I get a vote. What is at issue is money and the way political campaigns are financed. Or to put this another way, is a large corporation excluded from the public discours if there are restrictions on how they can spend vast sums of money to persuade voters that I, as an individual, can't ever hope to come close to doing? It's okay with me if individuals from Goldman Sacks protests against OWS. They have the same rights, don't they? But when it comes to campaign finance, like the money it takes for the creation of comercial advertisements to push a political agenda, the deck is stacked against the individual.

I would draw the line at $100. dollars per corporation and per person going to any particular candidate, initiative, or pac. And if that's not okay with the CEO of Goldman Sacks, he can make a sign and go out and protest.


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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