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Alexander1304
Skeptic Friend

75 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2012 :  08:28:10  Show Profile Send Alexander1304 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello all,
Here is extract from one website,where the proponent claims that there are indications that humans have 2 information systems,one on material level another one on mirror level:

"DUALISTIC BIOLOGY
This theory is based on the assumption that living organisms make invisible mirror copies of themselves (parallel dimension, mind, dark matter, mirror particles).
Benveniste´s experiment and Kirlian photography of a cut leaf are indications that mirror copies of molecules and atoms are a reality.
Libet`s experiment, blindsight, endospores, seeds, phantom limbs and tardigrades are examples which indicate that organisms have developed a second information system on mirror world level.

Libet´s Sensory Experience Backwards in Time-experiment is a good demonstration that humans have two information systems: 1. The nerve impulse to cerebral cortex + 0.5 sec to consciousness in the material brain. 2. A fraction of a second (faster-than-light) on the unconscious mirror world level to mind brain.
Consciousness appears where mind brain is connected to the materialistic brain. Neurotransmittors act as body-mind transducers.

My interpretation of Benveniste´s experiment: Every molecule has a corresponding mirror copy of the molecule. A copy ("key") can react on a specific receptor molecule ("lock") on body level according to the immunological principle."

http://web.telia.com/~u59500234/ED03.htm


What do you guys think?Is it worth some serious attention or mere speculation?
My major point here is this: ""Libet`s experiment, blindsight, endospores, seeds, phantom limbs and tardigrades are examples which indicate that organisms have developed a second information system on mirror world level."
We got a claim here.Can it be refuted?I think claim on phantom limbs can be refuted,what about the rest?"
Thank you,

[Moved to the General Skepticism folder - Dave W.]

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2012 :  08:55:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't think there's a claim needing refutation, there. "Second information system" and "mirror world level" aren't even well-defined.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 01/11/2012 :  12:26:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Alexander1304

Hello all,
Here is extract from one website,where the proponent claims that there are indications that humans have 2 information systems,one on material level another one on mirror level:

"DUALISTIC BIOLOGY
This theory is based on the assumption that living organisms make invisible mirror copies of themselves (parallel dimension, mind, dark matter, mirror particles).
Benveniste´s experiment and Kirlian photography of a cut leaf are indications that mirror copies of molecules and atoms are a reality.
Libet`s experiment, blindsight, endospores, seeds, phantom limbs and tardigrades are examples which indicate that organisms have developed a second information system on mirror world level.

Libet´s Sensory Experience Backwards in Time-experiment is a good demonstration that humans have two information systems: 1. The nerve impulse to cerebral cortex + 0.5 sec to consciousness in the material brain. 2. A fraction of a second (faster-than-light) on the unconscious mirror world level to mind brain.
Consciousness appears where mind brain is connected to the materialistic brain. Neurotransmittors act as body-mind transducers.

My interpretation of Benveniste´s experiment: Every molecule has a corresponding mirror copy of the molecule. A copy ("key") can react on a specific receptor molecule ("lock") on body level according to the immunological principle."

http://web.telia.com/~u59500234/ED03.htm


What do you guys think?Is it worth some serious attention or mere speculation?
My major point here is this: ""Libet`s experiment, blindsight, endospores, seeds, phantom limbs and tardigrades are examples which indicate that organisms have developed a second information system on mirror world level."
We got a claim here.Can it be refuted?I think claim on phantom limbs can be refuted,what about the rest?"
Thank you,

[Moved to the General Skepticism folder - Dave W.]


It's not even speculation.

It's barely coherent.

There are no testable claims nor evidence.

In addition, the first three names cited as sources did no such things with electromagnetism.

Spemann published concerning differentiation in cells for zygotes. He formed much of the basis for embryology.

Gurwitsch is a philosopher concerned with gestalt psychology and phenomology which is concerned with conjecture on the cause for something with little to no evidence. He is not a biologist as claimed in the site.

Weiss is a German biologist who studied limb regeneration in newts. Nothing about electromagnetic fields in his papers at all.

Dr. Robert Foot (only source for mirror matter) has a BSc in Physics. He has his Doctorate in Philosophy. All of his articles have been published in Physics Letters B and Physical Review D. Both publications have Impact Factors of the lower 5's (Letters having 5.255 for a single year and a 4 for a 5 year average, Review having a 5.156 for a single year and no 5 year average being given.) The better journals have impact factors in the mid 20's to lower 30's.

He also did not start publishing until 2001. This is a completely new concept. His works were submitted to poorly peer reviewed journals.

Hahnemann is included but all he did was make an argument from credulity and provided no sources.

I'm calling this fluff and nonsense absent any real evidence.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Alexander1304
Skeptic Friend

75 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2012 :  16:18:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Alexander1304 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the responses folks.By the way,Valiant Dancer,I had email correspondence with Robert Foot,and asked him about what he thinks about this guy(I especially wanted his opinion about the "copying" biological organisms into mirror copies.His reply was very short: "It's a fantasy"
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Alexander1304
Skeptic Friend

75 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2012 :  17:55:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Alexander1304 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave W,I think it goes like that.There exist "mirror matter("mirror world") in th Universe.Biological organisms copy themselves into the mirror particles,thus creating "second information system" and existing in both worlds: our regular world and "mirror level world".Moreover,he claims that mind is supposed to operated faster then light in "mirror level world"
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2012 :  19:31:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, my question is still: where's the independent evidence in favor of the existence of this "mirror world?" Until they come up with that, I think the claims are a dead end.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Alexander1304
Skeptic Friend

75 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2012 :  19:47:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Alexander1304 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There are some theoretical phisisits that postulated existence of "mirror matter",inferred candidate fot the "Dark matter".Some talk about parralel,"mirror matteter" universe,he talks about it on his website at the beginning.Also look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_matter .I more more puzzled about where is independent evidence in favor of existence of the mechanism of copying of the biological organism into the mirror particles
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2012 :  07:58:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Alexander1304

There are some theoretical phisisits that postulated existence of "mirror matter",inferred candidate fot the "Dark matter".Some talk about parralel,"mirror matteter" universe,he talks about it on his website at the beginning.Also look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_matter .
No, that sort of mirror matter has nothing to do with homeopathy, free will, Kirlian photography, blindsight, seeds, phantom limbs, endospores or tardigates. I think this is just another case of people trying to justify all sorts of woo by abusing quantum physics, like Deepak Chopra.
I more more puzzled about where is independent evidence in favor of existence of the mechanism of copying of the biological organism into the mirror particles
There isn't any.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Alexander1304
Skeptic Friend

75 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2012 :  08:11:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Alexander1304 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave W,thanks,I get Your points
This morning I went to see my physician,to check my blood pressure.I showed him my OP here,and asked him to read everything to the end.I've never seen him like that.He was so laughing...Then shaked my hand and told "thanks for nice joke in the morning...."
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Alexander1304
Skeptic Friend

75 Posts

Posted - 01/13/2012 :  08:23:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Alexander1304 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"No, that sort of mirror matter has nothing to do with homeopathy"
From my correspondence with R.Foot and M.Khlopov there is either no mirror matter on Earth or in very limited quantity(0.1) and concentrated at the central part of Earth
Edited by - Alexander1304 on 01/13/2012 08:24:18
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Alexander1304
Skeptic Friend

75 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2012 :  09:28:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Alexander1304 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gues,here are here arguments that the soul is the mirror copy of the body:
The arguments for that the soul is a mirror image of the body

1. The crossing of the nerves in the medulla oblongata means that the memory of
the brain is situated in the mirror copy of the brain.

2. Heart chakra: physical heart on the left, spiritual heart on the right and heart
chakra in center.

3. The energy channels (nadi) in the etheric body are mirror images of the nerves
in the physical body.

4. Chiasma optica: the crossing of the optic nerves

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2012 :  11:37:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Alexander1304

Gues,here are here arguments that the soul is the mirror copy of the body:
The arguments for that the soul is a mirror image of the body

1. The crossing of the nerves in the medulla oblongata means that the memory of the brain is situated in the mirror copy of the brain.
This is simply wrong. The two halves of the brain are not mirrors of each other.
2. Heart chakra: physical heart on the left, spiritual heart on the right and heart chakra in center.
The heart is not on the left. Also assumes the existence of chakras and a "spiritual heart."
3. The energy channels (nadi) in the etheric body are mirror images of the nerves in the physical body.
Assumes that an "etheric body" exists.
4. Chiasma optica: the crossing of the optic nerves
The Optic Chiasm includes both crossed and uncrossed nerve fibers. What would physically crossing nerve fibers have to do with an immaterial mirror world, anyway?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Alexander1304
Skeptic Friend

75 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2012 :  11:44:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Alexander1304 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks,Dave W.I must say I am very gullible person,and buy almost everything I read.But my gut feeling told me that there was something wrong with these arguments.You confirmed that
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Alexander1304
Skeptic Friend

75 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2012 :  13:40:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Alexander1304 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave W,have a look,I just in case went to his website now and that what I found there: "The static mirror world is a background to the material world. Universe expands (scientific time) in an independent static mirror world where every universe has its time. All universes (memories) in the mind brain can be reached from the material brain."
Wow...

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2012 :  17:12:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Alexander1304

Dave W,have a look,I just in case went to his website now and that what I found there: "The static mirror world is a background to the material world. Universe expands (scientific time) in an independent static mirror world where every universe has its time. All universes (memories) in the mind brain can be reached from the material brain."
Wow...
It's a word salad. It looks great, but there's no meat in it.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2012 :  22:01:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My opinion is that this "mirror" to the material world is real enough. It exists in people's minds (and on the Internet) whenever people, often (but not always) with the best of intentions, eschew critical thinking in favor of mystical and wishful thinking based upon unsupported "facts."

It is a "mirror" castle in the sky, built out of slippery and almost random strings of undefined or misused words.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/16/2012 22:02:59
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