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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2012 :  01:28:08  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jen McCreight has an example of how certain fundies react when others show that they are acting against the constitution they they pretend to cherish: Case in point, the Jessica Ahlquist's petition to remove a xian prayer banner from her school.

You can read the link and see some screenshots yourself to see just how the fundies reacted.

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.

Edited by - the_ignored on 01/15/2012 01:30:14

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2012 :  02:13:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by the_ignored

Jen McCreight has an example of how certain fundies react when others show that they are acting against the constitution they they pretend to cherish: Case in point, the Jessica Ahlquist's petition to remove a xian prayer banner from her school.

You can read the link and see some screenshots yourself to see just how the fundies reacted.
Death threats and other vitriol. If that's the scumbag behavior that Christianity provokes from its deluded, I am now am even more happy to have rejected faith over 50 years ago.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2012 :  07:11:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A lot of those tweets are from Ahlquist's classmates, so blame needs to be spread to the stupidity of youth, and not assigned solely to fundamentalism.

The banner was obviously less than 100% effective, as one commenter points out that part of the prayer ironically read, "Help us to be good sports and smile when we lose as well as when we win."

In related news, apparently the "banner" isn't something that can just be taken off the wall easily, as they've covered it with a tarp, instead.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend

Hong Kong
380 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2012 :  08:00:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chefcrsh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

A lot of those tweets are from Ahlquist's classmates, so blame needs to be spread to the stupidity of youth, and not assigned solely to fundamentalism.


Indeed, there seem little evidence to support ascribing any religious motivation to most of the tweets. It seems normal ape-with-shoes mammalian chest thumping, to witch we are all prone, is sufficient to explain such behavior.
Edited by - chefcrsh on 01/15/2012 08:02:16
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2012 :  13:47:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.
In related news, apparently the "banner" isn't something that can just be taken off the wall easily, as they've covered it with a tarp, instead.
Or the school could just be stalling, unwilling to accept that the banner really does need to come down. From news reports I've seen, the school says they can't appeal the case due to lack of funds but are seeking donations. My guess is there is still a strong contingent within the school administration who thinks this whole brouhaha will eventually blow over and things can go back to the way they were.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend

Hong Kong
380 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2012 :  20:46:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chefcrsh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It appears from the order that the thing is affixed "permanently" to the wall and that removing it would damage it. It seems they have followed the plaintiff request to remove or alter sufficiently, though the judges order was strictly for removal. My own experience with legalities and court suggest that they are within a window of "reasonable" time where covering it would be sufficient, in preparation for further action, and the court would not likely take any further immediate action.

http://news.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/2012/01/11/ahlquist_decision_011112.pdf

The wondrous part is that simply by painting over the first line and last word they could have avoided all the trouble and expense. Humans are very poor at assessing risk.
Edited by - chefcrsh on 01/15/2012 21:33:00
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend

Hong Kong
380 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2012 :  21:48:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chefcrsh a Private Message  Reply with Quote

The wondrous part is that simply by painting over the first line and last word they could have avoided all the trouble and expense.


Of course if they had followed their lords explicit instruction, (well supported by scholars) they would never have gotten into this mess.

Matthew 6:5-6: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...."

http://www.religioustolerance.org/prayer.htm
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2012 :  05:04:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's more than just her classmates:

He has nothing negative to say about the people who felt they were above the Constitution and lied to subvert it. He did, however, have something to say about Jessica. Palumbo said, sarcastically, that she is “An evil little thing.” That may have bee said sarcastically (there is debate over whether or not that line was sarcastic, but I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt), but the line “I think she’s being coerced by evil people” was most assuredly not. She is not being coerced, and her cause is not evil.

He said this of the girl who sought to do right to the best of her abilities and understanding, agreeably to the Constitution, and laws of the United States. The latter half of that comes from the United States oath of office. It is a pity, though not a surprise, that Jessica is the one who feels abiding by that oath is not "evil".


Note that that guy is a Democrat.

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2012 :  08:09:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chefcrsh

Indeed, there seem little evidence to support ascribing any religious motivation to most of the tweets.
When so many of the tweeters hope that Ahlquist burns in hell or otherwise faces a harsh judgment from god, I cannot deny that religious motivations played a part.
It seems normal ape-with-shoes mammalian chest thumping, to witch we are all prone, is sufficient to explain such behavior.
It may be sufficient, but there's definitely something more.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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teched246
Skeptic Friend

123 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2012 :  10:47:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send teched246 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?" 2 Corinthians 6:14-15

Another lesson of "tolerance" from the new testament. Those "belligerent christians" are only following their doctrine down to the letter. I can imagine this passage rolling off the tongue of any kind of supremacist: simply replace "believers" with any given race or species, and "unbelievers" with anyone who falls outside of that group.

"For all things have been baptized in the well of eternity and are beyond good
and evil; and good and evil themselves are but intervening shadows and damp
depressions and drifting clouds.Verily, it is a blessing and not a blasphemy
when I teach: ‘Over all things stand the heaven Accident, the heaven
Innocence, the heaven Chance, the heaven Prankishness." -Nietzsche
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend

Hong Kong
380 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2012 :  19:12:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chefcrsh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by chefcrsh

Indeed, there seem little evidence to support ascribing any religious motivation to most of the tweets.
When so many of the tweeters hope that Ahlquist burns in hell or otherwise faces a harsh judgment from god, I cannot deny that religious motivations played a part.
It seems normal ape-with-shoes mammalian chest thumping, to witch we are all prone, is sufficient to explain such behavior.
It may be sufficient, but there's definitely something more.


Certainly there are some tweets from religious and religious acting horribly. But if you look at the tweet roll rather than the picked out "threats" it looks like most were not explicitly or for that matter implicitly religious, and quite a few (like the hail mary one for example) were probably poetic license. This line of reasoning works even more against the accusation of fundamentalism in the OP. These appear to me to be mostly the sort of everyman comments either from people who believe in a vague sort of something somewhere or just comments against the judgement (stay off our turf), rather than bible steeped fundamentalist Christian rhetoric. Certainly there could be some of that fanning the flames, but I would suggest that most of this is just Americans not liking to be told what to do by any perceived outsider. So more of an American fundamentalism than religious fundamentalism.

Part of the reason I come at this conclusion is that I see it in real live weakly religious people, all the time. My Mother, by no means a fundamentalist, has occasionally spoken out against her perception of state blocking things like prayer in school. She doesn't even understand the issue or history, she just imagines a bleak future where someone does not allow her to pray, and then staunchly takes her side.

I would say it speaks much more to common mammalian ignorance and chest thumping than religious fundamentalism. It is just conveniently about a religious act. But I can easily imagine (and have read of) students getting all warrior-like because a girl demands to be on the varsity football team, or other such secular conflicts.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2012 :  07:09:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah. The "fundies" in the title and OP is mostly wrong, yes. But religion isn't off the hook for these horrid tweets.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2012 :  17:49:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I disagree, Dave. "Fundies" must desribe this. Why? Well, Myers has an update on the situation.

If those are not the actions of fundies but "mainstream" religous people over there then it's worse than I though.

Now a new development: the Freedom From Religion Foundation wanted to send flowers to Ahlquist: none of the florists in Cranston would do it. They had to find a florist in a more distant town to do the deed.




>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
Edited by - the_ignored on 01/19/2012 17:54:32
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend

Hong Kong
380 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2012 :  19:13:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chefcrsh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But Ig the burden here is on you and Myers to show religious motivation and fundamentalist religious motivation at that. We have zero religious references in why they refused to deliver. We have one reference saying they will not deliver to that person with no comment on why. We have two others who declined the order without comment, and one who declined to avoid media controversy. Nope no evidence of fundamentalism there, unless you are using a sort of reverse of the no true Scotsman argument to call anyone who does not support your point to be a fundie.
Edited by - chefcrsh on 01/19/2012 19:14:14
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2012 :  19:16:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by the_ignored

I disagree, Dave. "Fundies" must desribe this. Why? Well, Myers has an update on the situation.

If those are not the actions of fundies but "mainstream" religous people over there then it's worse than I though.
It's worse than you thought. Twitterer "@NotDante," for example, is a pot-smoking, misogynist, wanna-be gangsta asshole who's obviously missed the fundie boat, but still wants to rape Ahlquist for her impertinence to Jesus.

Getting violent, abusive and discriminatory over god being dissed isn't limited to people who put Biblical fundamentals above all else.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2012 :  19:53:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Uh what? Zero religious references? Isn't the fact that they're all getting bent out of shape because she pointed out that the xian god in that banner was unconstitutional evidence enough?

As for the florists, come on. What other motive could there be?

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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