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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1486 Posts |
 Posted - 12/22/2012 : 19:09:08
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A Christian acquaintance sent me a very religious Christmas card even though he knows that I am an atheist. I feel ambivalent: part of the thinks that it's nice that he's thinking of me, but then I also feel annoyed that he's pushing his religion. He has told me that he used to be atheist so perhaps he thinks that I can be converted like he was. I like Kil's reply to such a thing: "if you were an atheist like me, you would still be atheist." Indeed.
On the front of the card: "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, goodwill toward men." --Luke 2:14
Inside the card: "May the wonders of His love fill your home with Joy and Grace. Merry Christmas."
Ugh, my house is filled with love, no fictional character necessary.
Since Luke was quoted, I'm tempted to reply with a Luke quote:
"Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 'If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple.'" --Luke 14:25-26
I love life too much to follow Jesus.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2012 : 05:48:52 [Permalink]
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Good points, Thor.
I think it's relatively rare for an atheist to deliberately try to push the buttons on a Christian just for the hell of it. But they hardly ever consider it wrong to push the same kind of buttons on their atheist "friends". After all, what they are doing is righteous evangelism (though it usually backfires by making the atheist even more determined), as opposed to a rarer atheist's gloating blasphemy.
Me, I think Christians are warring on our Christmas. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
 Posted - 12/23/2012 : 06:52:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by ThorGoLucky
A Christian acquaintance sent me a very religious Christmas card even though he knows that I am an atheist. I feel ambivalent: part of the thinks that it's nice that he's thinking of me, but then I also feel annoyed that he's pushing his religion. |
Given that some sects teach that proselytization is necessary for salvation, he may just be selfish. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2012 : 10:34:04 [Permalink]
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I sort of have a disconnect with being able to understand anyone who claims "I was an Atheist but now I'm a Theist", short of having a lobotomy or suffering brain damage.
In my mind that's equivalent to unlearning math. Before you learn how to work with fractions you are unable to do so. Once the knowledge is acquired short of a loss of cognitive ability, brain damage or some other brain change you should not loose that understanding.
I mean really!
How many here were told as a toddler that Santa Clause brought you the presents on Christmas and really believed it? I really believed it in my day. However once I got passed the understanding that it was just a bunch of nice lies with NO basis in reality there is no way I'm ever going back to believing in a Santa Clause again, without evidence. For anyone who believed in Santa Clause as a toddler ask yourselves "What would have to happen for me to believe in Santa Clause, AGAIN"? Can anyone see that happening to them? There can be no evidence because he's made up so what could do it? Santa Clause is as real as Loki, Zeus, Athena, Yahweh, all the God's. The single biggest source used to "prove" the existence of God for Jews and Xians is the Bible and as source material it's more than fatality flawed when taken in it's entirety, incredibility so.
As to your Religious card Thor, the message on the front was "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, goodwill toward men." Do you have a problem with the " on earth peace, goodwill toward men."? Two out of three ain't bad! Now you could receive that part and ignore the personally objectionable parts or not. That would be the issue for me. Whatever you do I expect it will or should be with more thought and consideration than was afforded you. Your creative if you need to do anything. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1486 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2012 : 16:41:59 [Permalink]
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| A couple of explanations of why some theists were atheist is because they were not exposed to theism or it didn't stick at first, or they were indoctrinated into atheism (parents). I don't think that they had reasoned their way to atheism. Like you suggest SS, you cannot reason your way out, but you can unreason your way out, and I think that's the case. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2012 : 21:07:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by ThorGoLucky
A couple of explanations of why some theists were atheist is because they were not exposed to theism or it didn't stick at first, or they were indoctrinated into atheism (parents). I don't think that they had reasoned their way to atheism. Like you suggest SS, you cannot reason your way out, but you can unreason your way out, and I think that's the case.
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Man I'm sorry, I can't even imagine what thoughts would be use to unreason one's way out of being a Atheists. If in fact you used reason to get there. I tried to think about doing that and all I got for my effort was real pain in my head.  |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1486 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2012 : 22:14:17 [Permalink]
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Indeed, Dave. I once dated a gal who claimed to be a devil worshiper but I think it was just the rebellious thing for her and her friends to do in Independence, Kansas.
Hehe SS, I think all it takes is to decide that faith/belief/god(s) are more important that truth. ...and literal brain damage can "help".
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2012 : 01:45:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sailingsoul
I sort of have a disconnect with being able to understand anyone who claims "I was an Atheist but now I'm a Theist", short of having a lobotomy or suffering brain damage.
In my mind that's equivalent to unlearning math. Before you learn how to work with fractions you are unable to do so. Once the knowledge is acquired short of a loss of cognitive ability, brain damage or some other brain change you should not loose that understanding.
I mean really!
How many here were told as a toddler that Santa Clause brought you the presents on Christmas and really believed it? I really believed it in my day. However once I got passed the understanding that it was just a bunch of nice lies with NO basis in reality there is no way I'm ever going back to believing in a Santa Clause again, without evidence. For anyone who believed in Santa Clause as a toddler ask yourselves "What would have to happen for me to believe in Santa Clause, AGAIN"? Can anyone see that happening to them? There can be no evidence because he's made up so what could do it? Santa Clause is as real as Loki, Zeus, Athena, Yahweh, all the God's. The single biggest source used to "prove" the existence of God for Jews and Xians is the Bible and as source material it's more than fatality flawed when taken in it's entirety, incredibility so.
. . . |
That's a very strong argument!
Somehow the self-described "former atheist" pose has become quite popular among our evangelical Christian neighbors. There are so many "former atheists" that I have to think most of them are just flat out lying. They are simply using that imposture as a platform to strengthen their position for trying to show that people can be argued out of atheism. After all, if they were convinced to abandon atheism, it could happen to others. That's what they see their pose as implying.
Of course, lack of belief in a god or gods requires no skepticism or special intelligence. There must be a few people who, for various reasons (including Dave's "it's cool") including social pressure, or reading a books that they didn't really understand, flirted with disbelief, and later returned to their deity none the wiser. With such people, though, that small side-trip is meaningless. For them, being an atheist was as mindless as being a theist.
So most "former atheists" are probably really present day liars-for-God, while a few may be mindless wandering fools. Theism is welcome to keep both the liars and the fools. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 12/24/2012 01:46:21 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2012 : 07:00:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sailingsoul
Originally posted by ThorGoLucky
A couple of explanations of why some theists were atheist is because they were not exposed to theism or it didn't stick at first, or they were indoctrinated into atheism (parents). I don't think that they had reasoned their way to atheism. Like you suggest SS, you cannot reason your way out, but you can unreason your way out, and I think that's the case.
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Man I'm sorry, I can't even imagine what thoughts would be use to unreason one's way out of being a Atheists. If in fact you used reason to get there. I tried to think about doing that and all I got for my effort was real pain in my head.
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I have noticed two distinct types of atheists.
Those who have logically come to the conclusion that a God believe is surperfluous. They tend to view religion with some bemusement saying something about the gullibility of the "marks". They only really go after religion when it tries to poke it's head (or other appendages) into government or insists that the "Godless heathens(tm)" are destroying society and must be locked up/converted/killed.
Then there are theists pretending to be atheists. They are mad at "God" for some sort of personal tradgedy. They will reconcile with their God and become theistic again. Their abandonment of theism was not genuine.
This may convert the pain to gales of derisive laugher, Bruce. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
 Posted - 12/24/2012 : 09:24:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
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So most "former atheists" are probably really present day liars-for-God, while a few may be mindless wandering fools. Theism is welcome to keep both the liars and the fools. |
Well, they are unknowingly perfectly honest. Babies don't believe in any God, so everybody starts out as an atheist, right?
Thus, everybody is either a current or former atheist! |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2012 : 13:34:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Boron10
Originally posted by HalfMooner
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So most "former atheists" are probably really present day liars-for-God, while a few may be mindless wandering fools. Theism is welcome to keep both the liars and the fools. |
Well, they are unknowingly perfectly honest. Babies don't believe in any God, so everybody starts out as an atheist, right?
Thus, everybody is either a current or former atheist!
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Damnit! Didn't think of that. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1486 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2012 : 14:37:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Boron10
Originally posted by HalfMooner
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So most "former atheists" are probably really present day liars-for-God, while a few may be mindless wandering fools. Theism is welcome to keep both the liars and the fools. |
Well, they are unknowingly perfectly honest. Babies don't believe in any God, so everybody starts out as an atheist, right?
Thus, everybody is either a current or former atheist!
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I thought of that, came to post, and you beat me to it.  |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2012 : 19:05:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by ThorGoLucky
Originally posted by Boron10
Originally posted by HalfMooner
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So most "former atheists" are probably really present day liars-for-God, while a few may be mindless wandering fools. Theism is welcome to keep both the liars and the fools. |
Well, they are unknowingly perfectly honest. Babies don't believe in any God, so everybody starts out as an atheist, right?
Thus, everybody is either a current or former atheist!
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I thought of that, came to post, and you beat me to it.
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Rocks don't believe in God either.
That gets you, "Atheists Rocks". |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2012 : 22:45:50 [Permalink]
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| The soul of an atheist resides in every rock. You can't prove it ain't so. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2012 : 23:28:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
The soul of an atheist resides in every rock. You can't prove it ain't so. |
I've got a rock that keeps atheist souls away. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Christmas Cards to Atheists
