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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 05/07/2013 : 21:15:10
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Found on Richard Dawkins website.
The petition to stop this fucking idiocy is here.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
 Posted - 05/12/2013 : 19:25:30 [Permalink]
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I'm not so sure I can agree with petitions generally do nothing at all, Dave. Though "generally" is a bit (general) or unspecific. I'm not exact on what that's saying. I sign change.org petitions most of the time but not everyone and get notices when they achieved their intent. Certainly they aren't 100% but even at a 25% success rate, I would say that it's always worth the effort. It will be interesting to see if this petition helps her before court time. It's a bumrap and taken to a jury trial I would think she would not be found guilty but we'll see either way. You might not be aware how many times they are effective.
Speaking of petitions, I got this from change.org today w/subject line "What 1,461,948 signatures did:" Sunday, May 12, 2013 11:21 AM.
James —
Here's what it feels like to win a campaign on Change.org: it feels like 14 year-old Morgan getting the life-saving treatment she needs to survive. It feels like Carson Rubin finding out he's going to get his "robot ears" and be able to hear for the first time at age 5. It feels like Kathryn Jones saving her home from foreclosure.
Those are just three of the recent victories that were made possible because you signed a petition. Check out more below – and see which ones you helped win.
* Kathryn Jones of Pennsylvania won a loan modification with Bank of America that will allow her family to stay in their home after receiving over 185,000 signatures on her petition. Kathryn says, "For those who signed, you have our most humble gratitude. May your kindness find its way back to you."
* 15 year-old Rehtaeh committed suicide after being raped and cyber-bullied. Authorities launched an investigation surrounding her death when 455,000 people signed a petition started by Sherri, a family friend.
5 year-old Carson Rubin's parents started a petition asking their health care provider to cover the cost of Carson's cochlear implant surgery, and after 111,653 signatures, Coventry Health Care not only agreed to cover the cost, but to change the policy statewide.
When Ankur Singh was left outside in subzero temperatures by Greyhound bus company, he started a petition. More than 90,000 signatures later, Greyhound agreed to make sure stations are open for passengers.
* Jonathan Hankins and his family got sick after moving into a home Freddie Mac sold them because it used to be a meth lab. His petition asking the mortgage lender to cover the cost of decontaminating their home won with 211,995 signatures.
* The University of Virginia stopped "cruel trainings" on cats named Alley, Fiddle, and Kiki after a petition started by a doctor and animal lover got over 185,000 signatures. The cats are now in good homes.
Each of these victories represents an adversity overcome, a life made better – or even possible – because you signed a petition. What will you change next?
Katie and the Change.org team
(FYI the (*) by some of them are ones I signed.) |
I presume the people who had those issues and took a chance starting their petition would not agree.
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There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 20:55:49 [Permalink]
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| Isn't a petition just an argument from popularity? |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 21:04:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Isn't a petition just an argument from popularity? |
'Cause social change always stems from a solid logical argument. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 21:47:01 [Permalink]
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| Are you saying that educational reforms should not be subject to argument from popularity, but social reforms should? There always seems to be some excuse when skeptics are caught using they same logical fallacies they love to accuse others of. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2013 : 22:50:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Are you saying that educational reforms should not be subject to argument from popularity, but social reforms should? There always seems to be some excuse when skeptics are caught using they same logical fallacies they love to accuse others of. |
Saying "we think situation X is wrong and it should change" isn't a logical argument, and so cannot be subject to logical fallacies.
Now, if we were to go into the reasons why the status quo should change, those will be logical arguments built on certain moral axioms, and so may include fallacious logic. But a petition itself isn't such an argument. A petition's intent is to get the attention of those who might listen to an argument in favor of a proposition (and they fail more often than they succeed), it isn't the proposition itself. Different contexts require different tools.
I'm guessing by "educational reforms" you're referring to the creationism thing, but all ten of those items were allegedly logical arguments in the form of "[text of reason], therefore we should teach creationism in public schools." #10 was basically, "creationism is popular, therefore teach it," a blatant argument from popularity.
If someone in power perked up at the Kiera Wilmot petition and asked, "okay, why shouldn't she be charged with a felony?" and the response was, "because a lot of us don't want her to be," then that would be a fallacious argument from popularity. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2013 : 02:01:50 [Permalink]
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| Sounds an awful lot like you only apply logic when it suits you to do so. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2013 : 03:41:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Sounds an awful lot like you only apply logic when it suits you to do so. |
I wouldn't know how to apply logic when it's not suitable. "I like chocolate" is an empirical statement which might be a premise to a logical argument, but I wouldn't know how to "apply logic" to it alone. Context matters. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2013 : 05:38:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Isn't a petition just an argument from popularity?
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I don't see them that way, not in a strict sense. For it to be based on popularity then wouldn't a petition have an approved or disapproved opinion box to sign, with the totals signatures mandating it's adaption or not? Petitions gather their own number of signatures and that number has no relevance or is no guarantee when large that it's purpose or requested change occurs. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2013 : 18:04:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Sounds an awful lot like you only apply logic when it suits you to do so.
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Logical arguments are used when one is trying to sort out the nature of reality, not when one is trying to tell someone to do something. A petition is not a logical argument at all. That's an entirely different kettle of fish. |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2013 : 18:10:04 [Permalink]
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| In other words: We're trying to enact change, not win an argument. |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2013 : 06:43:32 [Permalink]
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Great news, the petition helped Ms.Wilmot.
Link.
State Attorney Jerry Hill: Drop charges against Kiera Wilmot
---------
Victory
After more than 194,000 people signed Maggie Gillman's petition to have all charges against high-school student Kiera Wilmot dropped, prosecutors have just announced that they will not file any charges against Kiera! Kiera was arrested and faced two felony charges after conducting a science experiment at school without permission.
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Now, what will be the next overreaction our nonthinking dogmatic school administrators inevitably stumble into? Maybe some 8 y/o will get suspended for having a solid plastic key chain charm of a gun 1/2 inch big and be charged with bringing a gun to school or suspended for a t-shirt or hair cut that dares to attract attention, that brings out the wrath of the principal. What a colossal waste of intelligence and authority. How much does a principal's head have to be up their ass to suspend a student for doing this |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Teen charged with felony for science experiment
