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 Does no one understand free speech anymore?
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2013 :  09:59:51  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
By now, those of us in the US have heard of the latest celebrity kerfuffle over the suspension of one of the starts of the Duck Dynasty.

(pauses to let the non-US members to quit laughing)

Social media has exploded with cries of violations of the star's free speech.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, but the protection of free speech in America has to do with the government suppressing free speech, not private companies.

For instance, say I was a widely recognized employee of Company X. I go out in the street and start railing against abortion or some other hot button issue. My company starts getting complaints about my conduct and fires me.

Has my free speech right been violated?

I say, no. Because it isn't the government. and freedom of speech does not mean freedom from repercussions for that speech.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2013 :  11:39:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I want to see one of these free-speech "advocates" do nothing when their child starts blurting out four-letter words in a public library. They'll be able to talk about actual government censorship when a library employee (government agent) asks them to quiet the child or leave. The next step would obviously end with a lawsuit claiming police harassment or even political imprisonment. Which a judge would then laugh out of court.

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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1265 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  03:22:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was shocked by his statements. I never would have suspected that a 67 year old born again christian, redneck, hunter from louisiana would harbour any homophobic sentiments.

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  07:27:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What's up with the mocking of people who are "shocked" by this guy's statements (here and elsewhere)? A&E expressed disappointment because, as I understand it (having never seen Duck Dynasty), the faith expressed in the show has been unwaveringly "uplifting." To use his faith to disparage (with stupid and ugly analogies) a group that A&E has always supported had to be disappointing. He'd kept his trap shut through 52 episodes.

Getting back on-topic, Jason Thibeault has a bunch of good stuff about free speech.

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9672 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  07:31:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I never would have suspected that thousands of born again christians with no sense of decency, clueless about their own contry's foundational laws, and full of love of christ, would defend him for getting his ass fired for being a f***ng dick.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

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Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  08:15:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This cartoon.

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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1457 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  14:30:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Freedom of speech or screech?
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend

USA
384 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  15:46:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Convinced a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This issue is ridiculous. A&E is doing what is in the best interest of A&E. Alec Baldwin got kicked off of MSNBC for making anti gay comments, so its not about his religious views. Its about our culture not tolerating an opinion other than pro gay sentiments. I do wonder what would have been done if he simply said "I think homosexuality is a sin" and left it at that without the crudeness.

Is his ousting for having that opinion or how he said it? What does anyone think?

Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17)
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1265 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  22:20:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

What's up with the mocking of people who are "shocked" by this guy's statements (here and elsewhere)?


Because given what we already know about this man, his views should be expected. The only shocking thing was that he was stupid enough to say them in public.

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  23:02:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

Originally posted by Dave W.

What's up with the mocking of people who are "shocked" by this guy's statements (here and elsewhere)?
Because given what we already know about this man, his views should be expected. The only shocking thing was that he was stupid enough to say them in public.
Yes, and who is saying that they are "shocked"? None of the important players, like A&E or GLAAD or other Duck Dynasty family members.

The only people who'd be "shocked" are those viewers who've been led by A&E to believe that Phil Robertson was a kinder, gentler kind of Christian by what they see on the show, without digging deeper on their own. And you're mocking them.

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  23:16:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Convinced

Its about our culture not tolerating an opinion other than pro gay sentiments.
No, it's about our culture not tolerating bigoted anti-gay sentiments. Don't present a false dichotomy: a failure to voice anti-gay sentiments is not the same as voicing pro-gay sentiments. He could have not offered a public opinion, and nothing would have happened, despite his personal feelings on the matter.

Really, it's called "tact." And since Robertson tried (and failed) to walk his statements back, we know he wasn't speaking from a principled stance, but merely mouthing off.
I do wonder what would have been done if he simply said "I think homosexuality is a sin" and left it at that without the crudeness.
Since A&E has always supported the LGBT community, he'd probably still have gotten suspended.
Is his ousting for having that opinion or how he said it? What does anyone think?
Given his employer's public stance on the question of homosexuality, it's only what he said, not how he said it.

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2013 :  23:23:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ten Points About Speech, Ducks, And Flights To Africa from the ever-awesome conservative lawyer, Ken White.

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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1265 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2013 :  00:41:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll have you know that Hollywoodlife.com found it shocking.

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Convinced
Skeptic Friend

USA
384 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2013 :  15:19:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Convinced a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by Convinced

Its about our culture not tolerating an opinion other than pro gay sentiments.
No, it's about our culture not tolerating bigoted anti-gay sentiments. Don't present a false dichotomy: a failure to voice anti-gay sentiments is not the same as voicing pro-gay sentiments. He could have not offered a public opinion, and nothing would have happened, despite his personal feelings on the matter.
It seems you made my point about our culture not tolerating anti gay opinions. You seem to think that any opinion in opposition to homosexuality is bigoted. If so, then I think my statement on our culture not tolerating anything less than pro gay sentiments is correct.

Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17)
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2013 :  23:50:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Convinced

It seems you made my point about our culture not tolerating anti gay opinions. You seem to think that any opinion in opposition to homosexuality is bigoted. If so, then I think my statement on our culture not tolerating anything less than pro gay sentiments is correct.
And it seems that you are enthralled with the false dichotomy, as if there are only "pro-gay" and "anti-gay" sentiments, leaving out the vast middle ground of "I don't care how other consenting adults decide to have sex."

Unless you consider not caring to be "pro-gay." If that's the case, then yes, there are only two sides: the side of personal freedoms, and the side that wants to police other peoples' bedrooms.

And you should be intolerant of anti-gay opinions in that case, because if a majority of voters want to police peoples' bedrooms, then the government will feel free to police peoples' very intimate and private sex lives. And if the government decides that that's okay, then the government will also feel free to police less private practices like your parenting, your entertainment choices, your reading material and your dietary choices.

Doesn't your Bible specifically enjoin you from judging other people, reserving that right specifically for God? Anti-gay sentiments are entirely about judging. Merely saying "homosexuality is a sin" is a judgment, given that what the Bible actually says requires interpretation to reach that conclusion.

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2013 :  00:11:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Convinced

You seem to think that any opinion in opposition to homosexuality is bigoted.
And you're going to have to explain to me how any opinion in opposition to homosexuality that is more general than "I think it's yucky and wouldn't engage in homosexual behavior myself" is not bigoted.

Saying "homosexuality is a sin" is analogous to saying "liking chocolate will get you condemned to eternal flames." The only difference is that the vast majority of people who condemn chocolate are engaging in obviously joking hyperbole, while the people who publicly condemn homosexuality are serious.

In no place on the planet and at no time has saying "I like chocolate" entailed a risk of a death sentence. The opinion "homosexuality is a sin" holds a gazillion times more real, physical power than the opinion "chocolate sucks." And whether an opinion is bigoted has to be measured in that context.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
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