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slimwalker
New Member
5 Posts |
 Posted - 12/16/2015 : 09:06:04
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Reading this: GOP
In light of this: Obama's Threat
...makes one wonder how the GOP can claim they are/will be tough on Islamic terrorism when they deny what the root cause of it is??? Solve global warming/climate change and you've solved Islamic terrorism, both at the same time. How can those idiotic pubs be so oblivious to this simple reality??? To deny this is to deny climate science and the narrative painted for us by our fearless and brilliant president.
In case we don't think the stakes are high for 2016 consider that a republican president means we will be using bullets, bombs, and war planes to fight ISIS while a democrat president means we will be using solar panels, smart cars, and wind farms to fight ISIS. The stakes could not be higher. Victory means a cooler planet and peace with ISIS while defeat means full steam ahead for global warming and the combat war with ISIS.
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Slim for life |
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend
275 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2015 : 01:43:08 [Permalink]
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These are not rethorical questions, it's just thar it's the first time I hear about this cause/effect regarding IISIS (and I thought I was informed)
How is ISIS caused by global warming? (which I know it's very real and very serious)
Surely there most be many other factors involved as well, right?
Cheers! |
"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott
"They are still mosquitoes! They did not turn into whales or lizards or anything else. They are still mosquitoes!..." Bill Scott
"We should have millions of missing links or transition fossils showing a fish turning into a philosopher..." Bill Scott |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2015 : 10:56:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by perrodetokio
Surely there most be many other factors involved as well, right?
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Certainly a few major ones. I would sooner believe the US industrial military complex to be a big one of them before I would ever entertain GW. I've never heard reported where or who the source of their quite substantial armaments are from. It did make the news that a Texas plumbing company's service truck was acquired by isis and that indisputably came from the USA. Are we expected to believe Syria or Iran financed them with their check books? Basically creating another independent army in addition to the existing ones they currently have? Follow the money. America spends more on defense than the next 20 countries combined, which is 54% of it annual budget (2015). That's not counting the 6% of America's budget for veteran's benefits which is a direct result of defense spending which conveniently not considered part of defense spending. Those two together are 60% of America's 2015 discretionary spending. Don't stop the carnival, keep voting for more of the same and we will get exactly that.
Reminds me of two things, what John Lennon sang, " I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round" and that little book "1984" and how life can be stranger than fiction. It's exactly like the "Ministry of Truth" came up with this ISIS caused by GW connection. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
 Posted - 12/25/2015 : 02:37:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by slimwalker
...makes one wonder how the GOP can claim they are/will be tough on Islamic terrorism when they deny what the root cause of it is??? Solve global warming/climate change and you've solved Islamic terrorism, both at the same time. |
It's not that simple.
USA needs to stop swinging it's big dick where it doesn't belong, or else someone's going to stomp it again. Obviously, most Americans didn't learn anything from the 9/11 WTC-attack... |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2015 : 08:01:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
It's not that simple.
USA needs to stop swinging it's big dick where it doesn't belong, |
That is not going to happen. Obviously, most Americans didn't learn anything from the 9/11 WTC-attack...
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It's not whether or not Americans have learned a damned thing. American's for the most part are spoon feed by the corporate owned mass media, so they learn what they're told. American voters don't get to say where the troop are sent. Those that do decide pull the strings of congress and they get what they want, not Americans. Nope, America is not going to stop inserting it's dick wherever it is in the best interest of those that control Washington. War makes profits and there are those in congress directly profit from America's war mongering with the investments they hold. Remember Obama's saying he will be bringing all the troops home from Afghanistan before he leaves office? Turns out he didn't check with his bosses before he said that. So don't hold your breath. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2015 : 08:58:10 [Permalink]
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Mab:
USA needs to stop swinging it's big dick where it doesn't belong, or else someone's going to stomp it again. Obviously, most Americans didn't learn anything from the 9/11 WTC-attack... |
The US, by going into Iraq, created the mess that has given rise to ISIS. Most americans are weary of war, which is why there is such an emphasis on not putting ground troops into battle, even though we have by way of special forces. But now what? ISIS is a real menace. Do we have no part to play in cleaning up a mess that we have created? I'm of the opinion that we should get the hell out of Afghanistan. It's a quagmire and the Taliban will ultimately win. I also think the deal cut with IRAN to lift sanctions is a good one. The hawks here are against it but fuck them. Obama should get some points for that one. But ISIS must be dealt with, don't you think?
And by the way. Most Americans have concluded that going to IRAQ was a terrible move made under false pretences with the idea of nation building. Only the neocons that took us there still cling to the idea that it was the right thing to do. And they blame Obama for getting us out too early. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2015 : 08:21:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
And they blame Obama for getting us out too early. |
They blame Obama no matter what he does. If he'd reneged on Bush's agreement with Iraq and left lots of troops there, the conservatives would be screeching about Obama's imperialism. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2015 : 11:09:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
But now what? ISIS is a real menace. Do we have no part to play in cleaning up a mess that we have created? |
But to me it looks like an endless vicious circle. Whenever USA has sent in troops, they have created just as much shit brewing under the surface as the problems they were sent in to fix. If not more... ISIS is one example.
Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to see USA cleaning up the mess they've caused in the region, but sometimes I think the Middle-East is beyond repair. (And I blame USA, but you got that already)
So how could it be fixed? I wish I knew. But I don't trust USA to do any thing but making it worse, if not maintaining Status Quo.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2015 : 11:22:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
And by the way. Most Americans have concluded that going to IRAQ was a terrible move made under false pretences with the idea of nation building.
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...and they did so with impunity. A gross violation of international law, and while there, violating the Geneva Convention.
Whatever Americans get at the hands of ISIS, an argument can be made that they had it coming. ISIS thinks so, and I can certainly see their point of view.
So, when are the responsible people going to be held responsible for what they have done? More than half a million dead civillians in Iraq is a lot of blood to pay back.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2015 : 17:43:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
So how could it be fixed? |
Give the Iraqis and the Syrians stuff they don't have, like 24/7 electricity, healthcare, schools, etc.. If they have a better life, they be far less tempted to destroy the world over mere promises of a better life.
The U.S. won't lead such an effort, of course, because when it comes to hand-outs to anyone except the military, the Republicans slam the purse shut. And even if the billions needed to fund this plan were to suddenly appear (and avoid being siphoned away by graft), it still wouldn't work in Syria because of the asshat in charge there. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2015 : 08:05:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Kil
And they blame Obama for getting us out too early. |
They blame Obama no matter what he does. If he'd reneged on Bush's agreement with Iraq and left lots of troops there, the conservatives would be screeching about Obama's imperialism.
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I agree 100% Dave. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2015 : 08:23:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Give the Iraqis and the Syrians stuff they don't have, like 24/7 electricity, healthcare, schools, etc.. If they have a better life, they be far less tempted to destroy the world over mere promises of a better life. |
Is that what ISIS is trying to achieve and in fact doing? I don't believe that is the stated goals of ISIS. If it is I'd agree. Has ISIS been bringing to the areas they gain control of "24/7 electricity, healthcare, schools, etc.." or has ISIS been making life better for those who live in those areas it has taken control of? I don't see that at all, do you? ISIS has stated it's goals through their own channels, perhaps they should be brought into the discussion. I never read they are what is suggested, maybe I missed it. I believe they are much different. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2015 : 10:42:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sailingsoul
Is that what ISIS is trying to achieve and in fact doing? I don't believe that is the stated goals of ISIS. If it is I'd agree. Has ISIS been bringing to the areas they gain control of "24/7 electricity, healthcare, schools, etc.." or has ISIS been making life better for those who live in those areas it has taken control of? I don't see that at all, do you? ISIS has stated it's goals through their own channels, perhaps they should be brought into the discussion. I never read they are what is suggested, maybe I missed it. I believe they are much different. |
I think that what they tell people to get them to join up is vastly different from the reality after they take over a town or province. Their brutality against women is well known, of course (and would be especially vile for those who lived under Saddam's secular government - they make the Saudis look chivalrous). But according to NPR, 44.7% of ISIS' income comes from stealing from the people they rule over. And the majority of expenses are for military equipment and training, and not, say, building power plants or hospitals.
Regardless what they spend it on, if their income is derived from the theft of their own peoples' sheep, cows and land, then they're going to have to provide their victims with food and shelter (or send them off to fight and die), and so such an economy must be unsustainable. They'll end up with no citizens, as they'll either starve, not come back from war, or sacrifice themselves trying to fend off ISIS' further aggressions against them.
Those who were already shit on by the U.S. invasion will be willing to put up with a lot of shitting on by ISIS so long as ISIS tells them it's for the greater good of destroying the West. But most people aren't suicidal for mere principles, no matter how many virgins they're promised. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2015 : 11:46:19 [Permalink]
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By the way, after looking at numerous web sites, ISIS could probably build new oil-powered electric plants for about $1,000 per household they wanted to power decently (that's using the world average for power consumption and $500K/MW for construction). That doesn't take into account the infrastructure costs of power lines and substations, and the salaries of the technicians needed to keep the power flowing. So to electrify a smallish city with 25,000 homes would require $25 million, minimum. That's eight or nine months of pure profit from the leaked budget that NPR saw, and at least a couple years building the stuff.
But it'd all get blown up by Obama's drones, anyway. So long as there's no way to ensure that no bombs fall on it, ISIS' leaders will have little motivation to build large-scale, long-term infrastructure to benefit the people it controls. Now, it might benefit them to start such projects: roll in a bunch of stolen bulldozers, flatten some land, construct some flimsy shells of buildings and tell the neighbors they're building a new power plant to light the whole damn province. Then, when the sham plant gets hit by bombs, everyone gets to think the U.S. wants them all to live in the dark.
Even if U.S. intelligence is good enough to understand that it's a fake power plant and thus avoid wasting explosives on it, the crappy buildings will start falling apart on their own, and ISIS can tell the people that the U.S. is preventing the necessary technology from being installed. The result would be the same: more anti-West anger, which is what ISIS leadership really wants, anyway. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2015 : 15:01:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
I think that what they tell people to get them to join up is vastly different from the reality after they take over a town or province. |
I see the regional problems there to be driven by completely different forces than the lack of what you suggested might work, if they were provided. Certainly not exclusively from America's presence and involvement. What IS wants is out there on their own web sites, so it's no secrete.
Perhaps from those who have read it, we can know what they're intended goals are. I searched "IS stated goals" to see what it returns and came up with this article in The Atlantic. I read other stuff but I'm not listing them all. It claims in the article, " Baghdadi" is on the top, he controls IS and has spoken on camera only once (as of the article's writing). It goes on with "But his address, and the Islamic State’s countless other propaganda videos and encyclicals, are online, and the caliphate’s supporters have toiled mightily to make their project knowable. We can gather that their state rejects peace as a matter of principle; that it hungers for genocide; that its religious views make it constitutionally incapable of certain types of change, even if that change might ensure its survival;" So much for bringing electricity, schools and a better life for being elements that will be effective. This goes far deeper than that.
Going back in history which some here were to young to whiteness, I remember what Iran was like when the Shaw lost control and was replaced by Ayatollah Khomeini. It was in fact exactly like what you suggest is needed or wanted and would bring peace. Iran was a country which under the Shaw was very much moving into and already a part of our western civilization. It was the Ayatollah and his Islamic ideals with his religious driven goals for the region that thrust that once modern country back into the stone age where it now exists. That happened w/o any help from America I would like to point out and that is not a insignificant point either. So I'm not buying America is the sole prime mover and responsible for all the dysfunction in that region. That is what Islam has brought to Iran and beyond when given the opportunity. America is supposedly out of Iraq now and this IS came out of Iran (and Syria?) after we left and handed security to those empowered to do so. I'm thinking there cannot be a fix that doesn't eliminate the real cause/s. I'm also remembering how when given the chance the Shaw of Iran used his countries oil wealth to bring it's citizen into the 20th century. A very fine and good job he did as I recall from 1941 through 1979. Do you remember that? It should not go forgotten or not mentioned. What brought that country from the heights of the modernity it achieved to the shambles it is today is what needs to be addressed. The forces did not have American backing or it's support and it exists throughout the whole region today and is spreading beyond the borders it was holed up in until most recently. But what the hell do I know? Frankly this thread has made me spend way more time thinking and reading than I care to do on this topic. I have better interests. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2015 : 15:24:11 [Permalink]
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| [i]Originally posted by Dave W. But it'd all get blown up by Obama's drones, anyway. |
Just like Obama's drones were blowing up the infrastructure we spent billion rebuilding after removing Saddam, before they were even finished. Obama was doing that when Bush jr. was president. Sarcasm noted. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Global Warming produced ISIS
