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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
 Posted - 10/29/2003 : 08:02:21
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I got spammed with this - what a hoot! This is suppose to be a mileage increasing device along the lines of the Q-ray scam.
Wow, RESONANCE & MODULTION, that is even better than VIBRATION! Super inductors?? I bet that is better than them there super conductors.
quote:
Operates on the principle of RESONANCE, utilizing a double chamber frequency with phased frequency modulation. It is a MATCHED PAIR of tuned custom sealed Neodymium Super inductors (Magnets - me) that generate a frequency resonance between its two faces.
It must be hard to put on your care, right? No!
Snap it on the fuel line no wires or moving parts!!!
Why don't the Auto companies just put these devices on the cars to begin with???
quote:
Car manufactures are running tests on the FUEL SAVER, but since they are in the business of selling cars, they really focus more on design and safety features, rather then improving fuel mileage.
Oh, I see your point why would better gas mileage help to sell a car!
I love this part.
quote:
Make sure you check your mileage before you install the FUEL SAVER. Mileage is the sum of the total miles driven divided by the amount of fuel used. We suggest that you drive 1500 miles of normal driving and then make your before and after comparisons.
quote:
We will make a full refund directly to any consumer who is not completely satisfied with the result of any product within 30 Days from the date of purchase.
quote:
$89.95 + Shipping/Handling
($6.95 per order)
ALLOW 2 -4 WEEKS FOR DELIVERY
Lets see you have from 0 to 2 weeks to drive 1500 miles before you can determine if this product works.
Truly amazing for a laugh go to http://www.llat.org/default.asp and have a look.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
Edited by - furshur on 10/29/2003 08:06:45
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
 Posted - 10/29/2003 : 10:24:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
I got spammed with this - what a hoot! This is suppose to be a mileage increasing device along the lines of the Q-ray scam.
Wow, RESONANCE & MODULTION, that is even better than VIBRATION! Super inductors?? I bet that is better than them there super conductors.
quote:
Operates on the principle of RESONANCE, utilizing a double chamber frequency with phased frequency modulation. It is a MATCHED PAIR of tuned custom sealed Neodymium Super inductors (Magnets - me) that generate a frequency resonance between its two faces.
It must be hard to put on your care, right? No!
Snap it on the fuel line no wires or moving parts!!!
Why don't the Auto companies just put these devices on the cars to begin with???
quote:
Car manufactures are running tests on the FUEL SAVER, but since they are in the business of selling cars, they really focus more on design and safety features, rather then improving fuel mileage.
Oh, I see your point why would better gas mileage help to sell a car!
I love this part.
quote:
Make sure you check your mileage before you install the FUEL SAVER. Mileage is the sum of the total miles driven divided by the amount of fuel used. We suggest that you drive 1500 miles of normal driving and then make your before and after comparisons.
quote:
We will make a full refund directly to any consumer who is not completely satisfied with the result of any product within 30 Days from the date of purchase.
quote:
$89.95 + Shipping/Handling
($6.95 per order)
ALLOW 2 -4 WEEKS FOR DELIVERY
Lets see you have from 0 to 2 weeks to drive 1500 miles before you can determine if this product works.
Truly amazing for a laugh go to http://www.llat.org/default.asp and have a look.
I think I've figured out the exact mechanism.
The magnets produce a slight drag on the metal injector movement or fuel entry valve causing it to open slightly less than normal. In effect, making the car run leaner than normal.
Installation instructions specifically say it should be placed as close as possible to the injectors.
I'm really skeptical of the total fuel savings claims, though.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2003 : 12:05:10 [Permalink]
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I think the exact mechanism is that a completely worthless piece of crap is sold to a gullible individual and the seller spends the money on wine, women and song. This is nothing more and nothing less than a lying con-artist stealing money from uninformed consumers.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2003 : 12:27:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
I think the exact mechanism is that a completely worthless piece of crap is sold to a gullible individual and the seller spends the money on wine, women and song. This is nothing more and nothing less than a lying con-artist stealing money from uninformed consumers.
But at least my explaination made moderately more sense than that newage crap this guy is spewing. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2003 : 13:22:21 [Permalink]
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Ah, I wonder if the placebo effect also works for one's car?
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 11:46:54 [Permalink]
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Randy, only if the car has a mind of its own...
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2003 : 18:14:33 [Permalink]
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Randy wrote:quote:
Ah, I wonder if the placebo effect also works for one's car?
Absolutely it does. The term encompasses all sorts of reasons why things might appear to work, including "rater bias," in which the person measuring the effects of a drug or fuel magnetizer accidentally (or on purpose) "fudges" the figures in favor of "yes, it has an effect."
This is why when people claim that animal testing "proves" that homeopathy works (just one example), because animals don't get placebo effects, they are wrong.
Oh, wow. Just went to the FAQ on the website. This is hysterical:quote:
What is a hydrocarbon?
It is the hydrogen and carbon content of the fuel.
Brilliant answer which provides zero information.quote:
What are hydrocarbon chains?
Hydrocarbon molecules that cluster and grow causing molecules to be trapped from air during the combustion.
And that's just wrong. Gasoline is a hydrocarbon chain.quote:
Due to the vast vanity of engines...
THAT is what that Carly Simon song is about! An engine!
Valiant Dancer wrote:quote:
The magnets produce a slight drag on the metal injector movement or fuel entry valve causing it to open slightly less than normal. In effect, making the car run leaner than normal.
No chance. If the photos on the web site are typical installations, the magnets often sit many inches away from the injectors, meaning a very small magnetic field (probably only slightly greater than background - Earth's field). In any car with a V-6 or a V-8 (or any kind of "V" design), the fuel line will be split even farther from the injectors, leading to an even smaller effect. Plus, the FAQ claims it works on any car, including carbeurated engines, which have no injectors, and many of which have valves made of non-magnetic brass for corrosion resistance. Heck, are fuel injector valves made of steel? Probably aluminum, so they'll take less effort to open and close. No magnetic effects there.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 11:22:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Randy wrote:quote:
Ah, I wonder if the placebo effect also works for one's car?
Absolutely it does. The term encompasses all sorts of reasons why things might appear to work, including "rater bias," in which the person measuring the effects of a drug or fuel magnetizer accidentally (or on purpose) "fudges" the figures in favor of "yes, it has an effect."
This is why when people claim that animal testing "proves" that homeopathy works (just one example), because animals don't get placebo effects, they are wrong.
Oh, wow. Just went to the FAQ on the website. This is hysterical:quote:
What is a hydrocarbon?
It is the hydrogen and carbon content of the fuel.
Brilliant answer which provides zero information.quote:
What are hydrocarbon chains?
Hydrocarbon molecules that cluster and grow causing molecules to be trapped from air during the combustion.
And that's just wrong. Gasoline is a hydrocarbon chain.quote:
Due to the vast vanity of engines...
THAT is what that Carly Simon song is about! An engine!
Valiant Dancer wrote:quote:
The magnets produce a slight drag on the metal injector movement or fuel entry valve causing it to open slightly less than normal. In effect, making the car run leaner than normal.
No chance. If the photos on the web site are typical installations, the magnets often sit many inches away from the injectors, meaning a very small magnetic field (probably only slightly greater than background - Earth's field). In any car with a V-6 or a V-8 (or any kind of "V" design), the fuel line will be split even farther from the injectors, leading to an even smaller effect. Plus, the FAQ claims it works on any car, including carbeurated engines, which have no injectors, and many of which have valves made of non-magnetic brass for corrosion resistance. Heck, are fuel injector valves made of steel? Probably aluminum, so they'll take less effort to open and close. No magnetic effects there.
I didn't say the product worked. I said that I thought I figured out how the mechanism was supposed to work instead of the absurd newage "molecules in alignment" claim. I have seen speaker magnets pick up some brass and aluminium. It all depends on the magnet. The drag would be non-zero (barely) but present none-the-less.
Bottom line, the claims are crap.
BTW, anyone know why a throttle for a 93 Olds Delta 88 Royale would have dead spots only some of the time? Does the electronic sensor control a physical throttle body or a vaccuum system? I long for the days of physical throttle linkages. This whole accellerate by wire sucks rocks. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2003 : 19:48:58 [Permalink]
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Valiant Dancer wrote:quote:
I didn't say the product worked.
And I didn't say that you said the product worked.quote:
I said that I thought I figured out how the mechanism was supposed to work instead of the absurd newage "molecules in alignment" claim.
And what I was saying was I that I think the "magnetic drag" hypothesis is just as absurd.quote:
I have seen speaker magnets pick up some brass and aluminium. It all depends on the magnet. The drag would be non-zero (barely) but present none-the-less.
And if the injector valves open the wrong way, the device would make the mixture more rich by keeping them open slightly longer. Does the fuel line on, say, a '98 Saturn approach the injectors from the lean or rich side? What if the injectors open at a 90-degree angle to the magnet? Do the injectors on a typical engine have fixed mounting points, so that they cannot be rotated relative to one another?
I completely agree with you that the claims are crap, but I don't see any reason to create other claims which sound better, especially when we can easily find reasons why they aren't. The real bottom line is that it is up to the creators of the device to promote them with claims that are both factual and believable. When they're not, we (the consumers) shouldn't try to come up with more plausible claims, we should simply show our disdain. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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jimfetter
New Member
1 Post |
Posted - 03/20/2004 : 15:08:35 [Permalink]
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That's right, Neodymium Super inductors are just regular ol magnets. ofcorse now I would rather own "Neodymium Super inductors" than magnets, remember super tech means super tech scams. 
Wanna make your own gizmo  more powerful, better than theirs, for less than $20. Use the super magnets that come on the sonicare toothbrush, or if you already use the sonicare, when you replace the head, take a one sided razorblade to cut off the magnets on the bottom of the head.
Then put on of those steel hose clamps on your fule line and the magnets will stick to it, use electrical tape to cover them up, and presto you got one better than that $80 dollar one. Every time you replace your toothbrush head, do the same with the ones on your fule line, and you will have a fresh boost of Neodymium Super inductors on your car forever.
And while your saving all that money on gas, you can purchase on of my watercolor portraits, I'm a starving (well poor) Artist. Check out my on line gallery if you liked my advice, heck even if you did'nt do it anyway. http://www.fetterconsulting.com/fetter_illustrations/
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2004 : 12:53:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by jimfetter
And while your saving all that money on gas...
Saving gas, huh?
If you really want to save gas, cut the gas line with a pair of pliers, and use the bicycle instead. Then your car won't use any more gas at all. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2004 : 15:34:07 [Permalink]
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OK, everybody sit down and get quiet. Smoke 'em if ya got 'em. Here's why these gizmos don't work, even in the unlikely event that they actually do work:
You cannot lean out the fuel mix enough to make any mileage difference because the engine will not perfoem without a certain mix of fuel vapor and oxygen (air). This is detirmined by the engine's compression, cam and ignition timing and so forth, plus atmospheric pressure (you run rich at sea level and lean in the mountains, The same is true for temperature changes.). If you induce a too lean condition, you will lose power, or it won't run at all, or, worse yet, you will burn expensive pistons and valves, while your engine is still running like shit. This last happens because the fuel/air mix also serves to cool these components.
A few years ago, I was racing the flying mile on a motorcycle, and if one wanted to learn some new words, hanging around my pit while I was tuning the carb was a good place for it.  I would even bore my own main jets, on the spot, trying to get the miserable bastard right.  Ah, but she was sweet when she was right!
Today's computer balanced injection systems, and even carbs, are great as they give the optimum mix under any, given conditions, and there is where you might realize some, small savings. Provided the ignition timing is right, and this can vary with the conditions as well. Fortunatly, today this too, is controlled by the computer.
Today's engines are set up to run as lean as you can run them, and still have some performance and longevity. The mixtures these run would have fried earlier mills, and many would not run on them at all, beyond sputtering and detonating (pinging).
Ok, everybody wake up. I'm finished.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 05:26:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
you run rich at sea level and lean in the mountains, The same is true for temperature changes
I'm just curious... at sea level (higher pressure) or cold weather (denser atmosphere) there are more oxygen molecules per volume. Is that what is referred to then people say "rich mixture"? I always thought it was the other way around, but I can be mistaken.
quote:
Today's computer balanced injection systems, and even carbs, are great as they give the optimum mix under any, given conditions, and there is where you might realize some, small savings. Provided the ignition timing is right, and this can vary with the conditions as well. Fortunatly, today this too, is controlled by the computer.
The lambda probe signals the computer if the mixture is out of balance. If one would apply the Magic Magnets, and they actually DID somethink funky to the injectors, the change would get picked up by the lambda, and compensated by the ignition computer. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 07:19:30 [Permalink]
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Precisly, Doc. Which is why I used to go batshit tuning the race bike. With as senstitve an engine as that one, only a few degree temp change could cost mucho horsepower / speed. I still have that cannonball (a '77 Harley Sportster) incidently, but doubt if I'll ever ride it again :sadness:.
As air is compressable, it is also slightly denser at sea level. More oxygen molecules per volume require more fuel to give the engine a balanced mix, resulting in greater effency, therefore more power. This can be easily observed in a stock mill controlled by a computer. All you have to do in keep careful track of your fuel milage, summer and winter (we're assuming a meticulously maintained vehicle, here). If you fail to show a slight, overall increase in fuel consumpton during the cold months, the drinks are on me. Of course, racing engines are much more sensitive and demand a lot of fuel under all conditions, so these differences become gross, and intake/exhaust tuning becomes an esoteric and profane science/art.
I think that, as the doohicky in question is to be applied to the fuel line ahead of the injector system, if the sensor called for more fuel in the mix, it would starve the engine, possiblely even resulting in what old-time racers call "a lunch job." These, like the related 'soup sandwich' are not a good thing.
But, I think I can safely state that the only benefit this thing produces for anyone is lucre in the purses of it's inventors. Apart from that, it does nothing, good or ill.
I am reminded of the 200 mpg carburators, back when carbs were the state of the art. I first heard of them way back in the '50s, although the scam is older than that. The deal was that you could install one of these on your sidevalve V8 Ford and get better than moped milage, ferchrissake! Then they disappeared and story went around that the auto builders bought up the patents and prevented production of it out of greed. And I've heard this gem off and on ever since. All bullshit, of course, but it gives me a chuckle to see it, or a variation of it, rearing it's ridiculous head once again.
Edited to add: there is really no 'rich or lean' fuel/air mixtures except in improperly tuned engines. Because the engine is useing more fuel in colder conditions, does not mean it is running rich. It means that the atmospheric conditions require more fuel to meet the engine's demands, therefore it is not 'rich', but just right. And the same for 'lean'. 
Further edited to clean up a little creative speling.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 03/22/2004 07:29:25 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2004 : 20:22:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
you run rich at sea level and lean in the mountains, The same is true for temperature changes
Ah... I just realized that I misread/misunderstood you. By "running rich" you actually mean that you actively increase the gas ratio to match the increased amount of oxygen.
I read it like "the mixture of the running engine was rich". Now it makes sense. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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