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Jarrid
Skeptic Friend
101 Posts |
 Posted - 02/10/2004 : 19:47:29
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I usually don't even bother looking at stuff like this, but out of curiousity I was curious if it was legit or not. A friend of mine called me and told me about a "business venture" he was getting into and my first thought was that it had to be a scam. But he assured me that it wasn't, and that his dad is in it(his father is a pastor) and his dad has made money with it. It is at this site: [http://quixtar.com/]. Supposedly, you get money by getting people to buy their products...anyway just check it out and tell me if you think its real or not if you have time.
Jarrid
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I don't have to go swimming through an outhouse to know I wouldn't like it." |
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2004 : 20:36:57 [Permalink]
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Just do a google search....
I found this....didn't have time to read it but you asked for it so here it is...
All the Amway/Quixtar Business Myths
From Quixtar Amway Business Analysis |
Mistakes are a part of being human. Appreciate your mistakes for what they are: precious life lessons that can only be learned the hard way. Unless it's a fatal mistake, which, at least, others can learn from.
Al Franken |
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend
USA
333 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2004 : 21:14:35 [Permalink]
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How often have you seen Amway products in your friends' houses? Not often, eh? Not much market penetration for a company that's, what, 30 years or more in business.
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- TW
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2004 : 22:14:07 [Permalink]
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The only way to make actual money in these schemes is to get tons and tons of people in your "downline," the people who place orders through you. A couple people won't do, you need dozens, if not hundreds, to first make back the money you sink into the thing, and then later to earn a living wage for the time you spend working.
The only way to get as many people as you need downstream of you is to be near the top of the pyramid. I first heard about Quixtar about five months ago. Your friend, Jarrid, is therefore far too late to get in near the top.
There's a nice mathematical method of showing these schemes to be failures for most, too. If every person in the scheme has five other people he/she brings in, there can be, at most, 14 "levels" to the pyramid before every man, woman, and child on Earth (with today's population) is a Quixtar distributor. And then, since they're all distributors, they'll have zero customers. There's even better math at the "myths" site linked to by Gezzam, above.
At best, he'll sink a few hundred bucks into buying products to sell to people who won't buy 'em, before he figures out it's a rip-off. That's pretty much what happened with my wife's foray into Amway, back when she was looking for something "easy" to do to make money.
Oh, and we still have crayon marks on our wall from our home test of whether or not Amway's miracle cleaner could remove crayon from walls as advertised.
In general, Jarrid, run screaming from anyone who wants to "share the opportunity" with you (a catchphrase used in many multi-level marketing schmemes, Amway/Quixtar included). The products are no better than generics, and the economics are backwards. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Renae
SFN Regular
543 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2004 : 06:39:03 [Permalink]
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You got great responses already, Jarrid. If I can just add...
Leaving the multi-level marketing piece out of the equation (and it's a big piece, for sure), Amway and their ilk are about selling. In MLM, you sell the idea of selling to other people, right? But you're still selling.
If you have the gift of being able to sell things to others, why bother with something so small as Quixar? Many big companies will train you to sell their product. Salespeople for big and even medium-sized companies sometimes make more than their CEOs, Jarrid.
I think people still crave something for nothing. Amway promises great wealth for relatively little effort. If that were possible, everybody would do it. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2004 : 07:28:39 [Permalink]
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I can only add one, small comment: If it looks too good to be true, most likely, it ain't.
I don't know of anyone who made large money doing Amway, although I've heard some (unsubstantiated) claims.
Married with Children once did a segment where Peggy joined one of these barely legal scams. She made big commissions by buying the products herself with Al's money. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Jarrid
Skeptic Friend
101 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2004 : 10:16:49 [Permalink]
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| Thanks to all who replied. I thought that it seemed kind of fishy, but wasn't quite sure. Now I am. Is there anyway for my friend to be able to get his money back? I believe he said he sent them 130 dollars and received some sample products in the mail. That was the part that confused me because normally I thought pyramids didn't actually have any products, but I guess they could take part of that 130 dollars he sent them and go to wal-mart and buy a few cheap things to send him to keep him appeased. Anyway, I'm guessing his money is lost? |
I don't have to go swimming through an outhouse to know I wouldn't like it." |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2004 : 10:30:55 [Permalink]
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| Some friends of mine were into Amway and were getting into Quixtar when I lost track of them. They spent a lot of money buying tapes and materials from Amway and sold almost no product. They tried to get people to sign up under them. Don't know how they did, but the people that were making money were the chiropractors and lawyers who were selling these kids what appears to be a load of nothing. Just my opinion from my observations. http://www.mlmwatch.org/ is a good resource on multi-level marketing. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 02/11/2004 10:32:47 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2004 : 10:52:07 [Permalink]
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Amway/Quixtar have lots of products, that they actually make (or at least repackage) themselves, but they're not necessarily any better or cheaper than what you'd find at Wal-Mart. True pyramid schemes don't have products, and it's the products that pretty much make Amway legal, if I understand things correctly.
Unless your friend can convince a small-claims court judge that the person he purchased the starter kit from should have known that your friend was incompetent to make such decisions on his own, he's going to have to chalk this up as a "buyer beware" lesson. Unless Quixtar is offering a 30-day "trial" or something like that, which I doubt. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2004 : 10:59:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Jarrid
Thanks to all who replied. I thought that it seemed kind of fishy, but wasn't quite sure. Now I am. Is there anyway for my friend to be able to get his money back? I believe he said he sent them 130 dollars and received some sample products in the mail. That was the part that confused me because normally I thought pyramids didn't actually have any products, but I guess they could take part of that 130 dollars he sent them and go to wal-mart and buy a few cheap things to send him to keep him appeased. Anyway, I'm guessing his money is lost?
Indeed. Short of going to court, I fear your friend is screwed a hundred and thirty skins worth. And there's no guarentee that the courts will help, as this scheme is, just barely, legal. I think it's legality makes it even more vicious because they prey upon those who usully have little to spare.
Caveat emptor, my friend. He'd best put it down to the cost of life's tutorials and move on. Some lessons are much more expensive and the instruction even more cold-blooded.
I'm glad you asked here before you yourself or another friend got tangled up in this sort of mess.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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jmcginn
Skeptic Friend
343 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2004 : 11:14:24 [Permalink]
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I went to an Amway meeting once, drug there by an ex-roommate of mine during my early college years. It seriously was like a cult meeting. Over enthusiastic hosts presented Amway while others nodded along or all answered "yeeeessss" (in brainwashed monotone) when asked if they wanted to be filthy rich. I actually was kind of spooked by the whole affair, by both the hosts and the actions of the guests.
Over the next couple of months I got to watch as my roommate and his girlfriend sunk several hundred dollars into various startup kits and training tapes only to never see a return.
Oh yeah they had demo products there as well, and as I recall the prices weren't that great and the juice sucked. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2004 : 15:00:07 [Permalink]
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| I went to a meeting for Quixtar a few years ago. Three hour speech. The guy said nothing and there were no products offered. Only distributorships. I stayed to be polite to my host, but did not ever do that again. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Jarrid
Skeptic Friend
101 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2004 : 15:56:44 [Permalink]
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| haha jmcginn...yeah from what I understand a lot of the time they have people "planted" in the audience to get audience members to get excited about it by cheering, etc. |
I don't have to go swimming through an outhouse to know I wouldn't like it." |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2004 : 17:43:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Jarrid
haha jmcginn...yeah from what I understand a lot of the time they have people "planted" in the audience to get audience members to get excited about it by cheering, etc.
Excellent! You are not entirely uninformed, I see. 
This is an old ploy in many if not most scams involving a crowd. As soon as the cheering starts, look for who started it. Repeat this often enough, and you'll find the shills.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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jmcginn
Skeptic Friend
343 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2004 : 08:19:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Jarrid
haha jmcginn...yeah from what I understand a lot of the time they have people "planted" in the audience to get audience members to get excited about it by cheering, etc.
Oh I don't doubt that one bit. After the presentation as we stood around and "socialized" and drank sucky juice it was quite obvious that just about everyone in the crowd were close acquaintenaces with the host except for my friend and I. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2004 : 10:54:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Amway/Quixtar have lots of products, that they actually make (or at least repackage) themselves, but they're not necessarily any better or cheaper than what you'd find at Wal-Mart. True pyramid schemes don't have products, and it's the products that pretty much make Amway legal, if I understand things correctly.
Unless your friend can convince a small-claims court judge that the person he purchased the starter kit from should have known that your friend was incompetent to make such decisions on his own, he's going to have to chalk this up as a "buyer beware" lesson. Unless Quixtar is offering a 30-day "trial" or something like that, which I doubt.
Not necessarily. If the MLM has no push for selling product but instead pushes selling distributorships, it falls under Title 18 USC 1302. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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