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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
 Posted - 12/27/2004 : 08:46:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
[quote]Originally posted by Kil
[quote]Doomar:
The betterment of the world or society is irrelevant to the atheist. Feeding and clothing the poor is not an atheist goal. World peace is not their agenda, but "freedom from religion".
Bullshit. And you know it…
Damnit Doomar, I'm going to have to buy another bull shit detector, mine just broke. But thanks for telling me what I think anyways. I certainly didn't know what I thought, I'm glad that you did.
What I am meaning is that the ideals of atheism are not for the betterment of others, but selfish in nature. That is not to say that individuals do not do unselfish acts, but that those acts are contrary to atheism and very much a part of "religion". And therein is the atheist torn, believing there is no God or afterlife, yet doing an unselfish deed, contrary to the beliefs of atheism, in that, charitable deeds are part of religious practice and/or Christian teaching. Wanting the "good" parts of godliness, yet denying the God who promotes them. Also, I think I need to note that according to Biblical teaching, man is inherintly evil and continually sinning against God and bound in that nature, therefore, whenever he does a kind deed or acts unselfishly it is by the grace of God, enabling him to do so, inspite of his nature to the contrary, and as an atheist, one takes credit for any good one does without even acknowledging a higher power, which, again, is vanity within the person.
What a load of crap. As stated before, atheists reap the benefits of charity and doing good works through safer neighborhoods, lower crime, and a general feeling good about themselves. Religion not required for such acts. It does not conflict with lacking a belief in God. And why shouldn't people take credit on a personal level for their good works? They actually did them.
The athiest is not torn by a lack of belief between God/afterlife and unselfish deeds. He reaps the benefit of his actions in this life. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 12/27/2004 08:51:03 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2004 : 10:32:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
quote]Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Doomar:
That is not to say that individuals do not do unselfish acts, but that those acts are contrary to atheism and very much a part of "religion". And therein is the atheist torn, believing there is no God or afterlife, yet doing an unselfish deed, contrary to the beliefs of atheism, in that, charitable deeds are part of religious practice and/or [Christian teaching. Wanting the "good" parts of godliness, yet denying the God who promotes them.
Well Doomar, you are a closed circuit. An atheist who does an unselfish deed is acting contrary to the beliefs of atheism, eh?
Atheism is a rejection of theism and nothing more. There are no atheistic beliefs other than it seems unlikely that God or Gods exist. Every other belief that you have attempted to heap upon atheists are your beliefs, and nothing more.
Doing unselfish deeds is not contrary to the nature of atheists.
Doing unselfish deeds is contrary to any person of any sect period, Kil. People are basically selfish in their nature. I am simply saying (not me, but Christian doctrine) that it is God who gives men grace to do good. Without which, no good would be done by sinner or saint or anyone. Man's boasting about how "good" he is is totally vain. I am not denying that men do good, only giving the credit (glory) to God. That is Christian doctrine as I know it. Christians who take credit for doing good things, are also boasting and doing wrong. None are excluded in this matter from boasting about goodness. All men are in like manner corrupted. According to Christian doctrine, men can be "regenerated" through faith in God and repentance from their sins and are, thus, more free to do good in this earth, yet not without sin still clinging to them like dead flesh to a living, recovering leper. It only follows that if people continue in their selfish, godless, lives, they are apt to do less good, God not being as free to work in their hearts, though still trying and succeeding at times in spite of their resistence.
"Atheism is a rejection of theism and nothing more" as if this isn't one of the single most damning sins of all. "Thou shalt have no other gods besides me." The first commandment.
As this implies no God at all, how is it placing any diety before God. I can't see the same from Christians who refer to Jesus as a seperate entity doing the same as they place Jesus before God.
quote:
The other moral laws: "thou shalt not make any idols, not use the Lord's name in vain, honor your father and mother, do no murder, not steal, not bear false witness, not covet, not commit adultery...all these are kept faithfully by atheists? I think not.
A majority of atheists do. They make no idols because they don't have a diety to make idols of. They don't use any dieties name in vain because the concept has no meaning to them. They respect their elders as they can learn from the experience of those elders. They do not commit adultery as a rule and it decreases their chances of being perforated by a jealous significant other. They do not bear false witness against others as it damages society rather than helps it and they would not like people to bear false witness against them. Again, all of these are societal norms. Can you honestly say that Christians also keep these commandments faithfully? One need only look at the roles of prisons to show that the vast majority are Christians, not atheists.
quote:
So what is moral and right to an atheist? Which of these commands do you agree with fully, or what other commands not listed are your guidelines for life? Where do you get your guidelines? Preach your atheism to me from the positive side. Let us hear you "morality" proclaimed and the virtues of your beliefs.
Few claim to keep the commands of God perfectly, but many belief in them, but atheists proclaim __________________________ as the basis of morality for society. Please fill in the blank.
Societal norms come from what has worked to help make that society better. As such, they are subject to change as the society changes. As has been discussed before, these societal norms have changed and they differ from society to society. Such as, Chinese culture (societal norms) values male above female children. Inuit cultures in starvation conditions over a long period of time would allow infirm elders to die by exposure for the continuance of the tribe. There are some behaviors which are universal due to the disruptive effect on society such as the concept of murder. To see how these change over time, one need only look at western civilizations treatment of women going from women as property to women moving to more of an equal status in society. Successful societies have been shaping what constitutes the basis for societal norms for millenia.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2004 : 11:16:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
As "not giving a *%@##!" you quote me Lot's horrendous deed. Now just what deed are you talking about?
Genesis 19:8 (NIV) reads:Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof. He offered his virgin daughters to a mob to try to protect a couple of angels who didn't need his help (Genesis 19:11). This horror is forgiven by readers because, they're told, Lot was "righteous." But Lot wasn't even Christian, and according to many Protestants is now in Hell with the rest of the Old Testament figures who never had a chance to "accept Jesus." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2004 : 11:51:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
As "not giving a *%@##!" you quote me Lot's horrendous deed. Now just what deed are you talking about?
Genesis 19:8 (NIV) reads:Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don't do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof. He offered his virgin daughters to a mob to try to protect a couple of angels who didn't need his help (Genesis 19:11). This horror is forgiven by readers because, they're told, Lot was "righteous." But Lot wasn't even Christian, and according to many Protestants is now in Hell with the rest of the Old Testament figures who never had a chance to "accept Jesus."
Is it just me or is Doomar ignoring salient arguements in favor to those which he can draw some personal affront? |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2004 : 12:05:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
Huh? I'm saying that there is condemning and evaluation. To personally condemn someone is not that same as evaluating their actions.
Sure. But you're not evaluating the actions of actual atheists, you're condemning atheism.quote:
What did Jesus mean when he said, "Judge not that you be not judged?" and he also said, "when you judge, judge righteously." He is talking about too different types of judgment, one being condemnation or damnation of an individual and the other being a righteous assessment of a situation or person without an actual condemnation of that person. It is not a contradiction, but a diffent meaning for the same word.
Fine. Why don't you try to follow in His footsteps?quote:
Herein is some of the problem. I have no problem with rightly evaluating any situation, but by what guideline? You claim no guidebook.
No, I claim that your guidebook is self-contradictory and impossible to follow. I acknowledge many guidelines for correctly evaluating many situations, and different situations require different guidelines. To make a book of them would require many more pages than in a single Bible.quote:
What's wrong with a guidebook? Do we just throw out the wisdom of the ages so we can say we didn't do it "blindly" obeying some book? That makes no sense.
That's why I don't make that claim.quote:
I happen to agree with the book you so easily discard.
I happen to agree with parts of it, and discard others. What guideline is offered by the story of the Jews wandering the desert? Or Jesus' temptation? Your guidebook has a large amount of irrelevancy.quote:
This thread is explaining to a degree why I agree with it. I understand to a limited point, that God is the Judge of the Universe and not only the Creator. Therefore, where you find fault with His mercy or His condemnation, I can actually see justice and mercy.
But you're unable to explain it. All you've been able to say is "God must have some sort of purpose for those awful things." Your guidebook contains no explanation. You're taking the explanation on faith.quote:
In not seeing you have condemned and rejected God and the Bible as an authority and you think it is only by "blind" faith that anyone could possibly agree with the Bible.
Indeed, where is the science which can be applied to matters of faith? The answer is, "nowhere."quote:
In this thread I am trying to show how it is possible to understand and accept these horrific judgments as just and right, not blindly and only by faith.
But you have been unable to do so, other by demanding faith. You even said that those without faith will be incapable of understanding.quote:
Your arguments for proof of these judgments and miraculous happenings are based on disbelief and not scientific finding to the contrary.
No, the Bible makes the claim that there was, for example, a world-wide flood. It is up to those agreeing with that claim to provide the evidence for it. No evidence of one can be found.quote:
Evidence of Sodom and Ghomorrah and surrounding area burned and obliterated is not hard to find.
Then please, share it with us. Of course, just finding a town burned isn't evidence that God rained down fire and sulfur. Nor is it evidence that angels struck a mob blind, or that Lot's wife turned to salt. The Bible makes those claims. The supporters of the Bible have the responsibility to demonstrate them true.quote:
Evidence contradicting it is.
Indeed, as is evidence contradicting the idea that I have an invisible dragon in my garage.quote:
Discounting millions of eye witnesses in the Exodus seems to be easy for you, but not me.
Millions of eye witnesses? Did they all write books? So far as I know, only a single person has written an account of the Exodus. If you know differently, please share with us your evidence.quote:
Discounting the intelligent design of creation is easy for you, but not for me.
Again, it is necessary for such intelligent design to be demonstrated before I will accept it as fact. You, apparently, have less-strict standards of evidence.quote:
There are million of examples that make it impossible for me to conclude otherwise.
Name twenty.quote:
But personal experience is the trump card. How can I discard or explain away personal evidence of God's goodness and mercy in my life and that of close friends or aquaintences?
I don't know. How can you also explain the lack of personal evidence of God's goodness and mercy in my own life, and in that of my friends and acquaintences (most of whom are Christians themselves, and I wasn't always an atheist)?quote:
Maybe some are able to do that. I have not been successful.
I wouldn't know, as I haven't had any such personal experiences to discard. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2004 : 12:27:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
I'd love to, as soon as the atheists in the crowd come forward and fill us all in.
Thank you for admitting that your previous posts about what atheism means, or what the goals of atheists are, were simply prejudiced screeds based upon ignorance.quote:
My source was limited, of course, to a single proclaimed atheist site and its political goals.
What site was that?quote:
I would be happy to hear from any avowed atheist as to what their "morals" or "values" are and how they came by them.
Your previous posts suggested that you knew this subject with authority. It turns out you lied. Why the hell should anyone try to clue you in, when you're not trustworthy with the information?quote:
It is my suspicion that each atheist does what is "good" in his own eyes according to his (or her) own assessment without the help of a single source.
It's your suspicion that what I told you, directly, is true? How odd.quote:
I would note that "honesty" or "integrity" of belief is noted as a virtue to many I have spoken with, yet freedom to judge and condemn any who hold contrary views about God also seems to be a virture or right to them.
Just as Christians commonly judge and condemn any who hold contrary views about God. Protestants fighting Catholics. Blood running throughout the Middle East for centuries.quote:
Thus, a different type of bigotry and intolerance is displayed, not commonly understood as such as theirs has "no religion" behind it.
Since when does bigotry require religion? The idea that atheists claim to be able to avoid prejudice or intolerance is false. Of course, one significant point is that no atheist has ever started a war in order to spread atheism or conquer the atheist "holy land" (haha!).quote:
It is the bigotry of anti-god or anti-religion that causes many atheists, perhaps not all, to engage in "slamming" of non atheist folk with belittling slurs.
Making the atheist no better than Christian, but that would only matter if the atheist claimed impartiality.quote:
If you are an atheist that abhors that sort of thing, I'd like to meet you.
Actually, I think the SFN has a good track record of avoiding slamming religious people just because they're religious.
And, I know of several Christians who are tolerant and not bigoted against atheism. Doomar, you are not one of them. So you might consider getting off your high horse before preaching tolerance and respect. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2004 : 16:29:39 [Permalink]
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| If you want an example of morality, try this! |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2004 : 19:51:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'd love to, as soon as the atheists in the crowd come forward and fill us all in. My source was limited, of course, to a single proclaimed atheist site and its political goals.
...
So you really don't know jack shit about atheism.
You are just a bigoted jerk who wants to preach your personal fantasy of religion.
Thank you for clarifying.
(edited for content) |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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| Edited by - Dude on 12/28/2004 23:31:24 |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2004 : 21:48:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
What I am meaning is that the ideals of atheism are not for the betterment of others, but selfish in nature. That is not to say that individuals do not do unselfish acts, but that those acts are contrary to atheism and very much a part of "religion". And therein is the atheist torn, believing there is no God or afterlife, yet doing an unselfish deed, contrary to the beliefs of atheism, in that, charitable deeds are part of religious practice and/or Christian teaching. Wanting the "good" parts of godliness, yet denying the God who promotes them. Also, I think I need to note that according to Biblical teaching, man is inherintly evil and continually sinning against God and bound in that nature, therefore, whenever he does a kind deed or acts unselfishly it is by the grace of God, enabling him to do so, inspite of his nature to the contrary, and as an atheist, one takes credit for any good one does without even acknowledging a higher power, which, again, is vanity within the person.
"No good deed was ever done by a non-believer." Is that what you are saying Doomar ?
Somehow the words "Bigoted self-rigtheous fool" keep popping into my mind. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2004 : 23:45:45 [Permalink]
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| This thread has really gotten off the subject. I've deleted my comments on atheism as that is not what this thread was about. That debate is for another room. If this discussion about "Who is the Lord and why does he do "bad" stuff still interests you, please post your comments on that subject. Thanks! |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 01:36:37 [Permalink]
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I've refrained posting much more in this thread since I feel I can not make any positive contributions. I'm standing too close to the subject, and my pain is still very strong.
I just can not accept the concept that there is a God who allow bad shit happening to people when "he" easily can make it not happen. Saying that it is to 'prepare someone for coming trials' is just a huge cop-out. Just as, when I see two kids abusing a third, I step in and make them stop. It's my fucking obligation to do something.
(Supposing for the sake of argument there is a god)
God had the power to make the latest earthquake not happen, but preferred to see 45000+ people die. In my eyes that's evil. And the examples the_ignored showed, the people from Rapture Ready, they are just some really fucked up people. I'm glad I've never met anyone like that in real life, because the meeting would have ended badly indeed.
Regarding your last post:quote:
This thread has really gotten off the subject. I've deleted my comments on atheism as that is not what this thread was about. That debate is for another room.
I can't wait to read it...
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 12/28/2004 01:39:32 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 08:55:37 [Permalink]
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Doomar wrote:quote:
If this discussion about "Who is the Lord and why does he do "bad" stuff still interests you, please post your comments on that subject. Thanks!
Then I'll repeat part of a previous post (with a typo correction):quote:
Originally posted by Doomar
This thread is explaining to a degree why I agree with it. I understand to a limited point, that God is the Judge of the Universe and not only the Creator. Therefore, where you find fault with His mercy or His condemnation, I can actually see justice and mercy.
But you're unable to explain it. All you've been able to say is "God must have some sort of purpose for those awful things." Your guidebook contains no explanation. You're taking the explanation on faith.quote:
In this thread I am trying to show how it is possible to understand and accept these horrific judgments as just and right, not blindly and only by faith.
But you have been unable to do so, other than by demanding faith. You even said that those without faith will be incapable of understanding.
...And now, here's a new thread about Doomar's ideas about atheism. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Wendy
SFN Regular
USA
614 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 09:28:43 [Permalink]
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While I agree, Doomar, that this thread has gotten off topic, had it not, it would likely be one of the shortest ever posted at SFN.quote:
Who is "the LORD"...?
I think Dude summed it up in the fourth post:
quote:
Originally posted by Dude
A figment of your imagination.
Or possibly the result of years of indocrination and brainwashing instead of imagination.
Or, a lie created to decieve and control the actions of people. A political tool used to manupilate.
That renders the second part of your question "... and why does He do 'bad' stuff" moot.
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Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 22:25:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Wendy
While I agree, Doomar, that this thread has gotten off topic, had it not, it would likely be one of the shortest ever posted at SFN.quote:
Who is "the LORD"...?
I think Dude summed it up in the fourth post:
[quote]Originally posted by Dude
A figment of your imagination.
Or possibly the result of years of indocrination and brainwashing instead of imagination.
Or, a lie created to decieve and control the actions of people. A political tool used to manupilate.
That renders the second part of your question "... and why does He do 'bad' stuff" moot.
Actually, I had rejected whatever years of Sunday School I had at the age of 18. I believed that God was for the weak and infirm, a crutch, so to speak. I was never taught about any of this stuff during those young years.
God dealt with me in a personal way and is still dealing many, many years later. I've learned there are things too high for us to comprehend fully. One of those things is God's judgment and dealing with men. God never promised a rose garden to man after he fell into sin. Just the opposite. He did promise a Savior, but He made one and only one stipulation in receiving that salvation: the promise is "to him that believeth". I can see justice in God's dealing with man described in the Old Testament, but I'm realizing that to explain it to someone who opposes faith is very difficult. Something must happen in our darkened minds to comprehend the situation and recognize the enormous complexity of it. Consider, if you will, an old Texas Instrument computer w/ a cassette tape drive and a tv for a monitor; very limited capability (I owned one). It had only a small amount of RAM memory and no hard drive, you had to use your cassette recorder as the hard drive. What if I tried to plug into that limited miniscule system a formula for figuring out world weather patterns? Just the data alone would require millions of cassette tapes. The ram couldn't even receive the info and the processor would lock up in a moment. Without the memory, long and short term, without the processing power to compute millions of equations, it is virtually impossible to even consider the problem. At least the machine would lock up and shut down with the overload, but when people, who think they know more than they really do, confront a problem vastly immense and beyond their comprehension, they seem to churn for years in a locked up state, content to think they've solved the equation with their limited input and inferior processing power, while in reality they never scratched the surface. Why? The key to the wisdom they needed was in the place they never went, the prayer room, on their knees, asking God humbly for wisdom. |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
www.pastorsb.com.htm |
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Doomar
SFN Regular
USA
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2004 : 22:48:50 [Permalink]
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I just can not accept the concept that there is a God who allow bad shit happening to people when "he" easily can make it not happen. Saying that it is to 'prepare someone for coming trials' is just a huge cop-out. Just as, when I see two kids abusing a third, I step in and make them stop. It's my fucking obligation to do something.
Everybody's going to die, Doc. What if God made a way for every man to find eternal life...a cure for the death problem?
We see a natural disaster that takes 55,000+ lives as horrendous and awful and terrifying and it is, yet we sit back and know a million people were killed in Rwanda by thug gangs, and no nation hardly raised a voice in protest, and yet, this type of thing is caused solely by men. Some things we can intervene and do something, Dr., and some things we cannot. Some are within our authority and some are outside of our authority. Would we scream at God for commanding some nation to kill those thugs who murdered a million people? Yet, in our argument in question, many are condemning God for calling for the slaughter of all these Amalekites, who were also murderers, and the main reason is that God called for the death of all their children, too. Of course, the Rwandan gangs killed women and children too, so punishing them by having all their women and children killed would be too horrible, right? Our justice would be better than God's, we would be more merciful, right? We would ask the ancestors of those killed to raise the children of the murderers. That wouldn't be too much to ask, now would it? Or we would just let them all die with disease and hunger and wild animals killing them. We know all the circumstance better than God and think we can condemn God because we are far more merciful than He is. We are the "monday morning quarterbacks of the Bible". Our hindsight 6,000 years later is so clear. Our world is so much better than that old world. We are kinder and gentler people. We American's are the greatest nation on earth, only we butcher our babies in the womb today, to the tune of about 50,000,000 since 1973. Yep, we are so much more advance and full of wisdom and goodness than our predecessors.......
Are you (anyone reading this) really that stupid to believe you are that wise and good?
Psalm 10
1 Why standest thou afar off, O LORD? why hidest thou thyself in times of trouble?
2 The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined.
3 For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.
4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.
5 His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them.
6 He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity.
7 His mouth is full of cursing and deceit and fraud: under his tongue is mischief and vanity.
8 He sitteth in the lurking places of the villages: in the secret places doth he murder the innocent: his eyes are privily set against the poor.
9 He lieth in wait secretly as a lion in his den: he lieth in wait to catch the poor: he doth catch the poor, when he draweth him into his net.
10 He croucheth, and humbleth himself, that the poor may fall by his strong ones.
11 He hath said in his heart, God hath forgotten: he hideth his face; he will never see it.
12 Arise, O LORD; O God, lift up thine hand: forget not the humble.
13 Wherefore doth the wicked contemn God? he hath said in his heart, Thou wilt not require it.
14 Thou hast seen it; for thou beholdest mischief and spite, to requite it with thy hand: the poor committeth himself unto t |
Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
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| Edited by - Doomar on 12/28/2004 22:56:38 |
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