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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
 Posted - 12/12/2004 : 12:59:45
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Sometimes skepticism looks like religion because you can find a lot of fanatics and leaders too. No matter mistakes and double speech, the fans always forgive leaders and give money to them.
Your opinion please.
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Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 12/12/2004 : 13:22:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Sometimes skepticism looks like religion because you can find a lot of fanatics and leaders too. No matter mistakes and double speech, the fans always forgive leaders and give money to them.
Your opinion please.
Hi, latinijral, and welcome to SFN.
I'm concerned about your above comment because you seen to define religion by the fact that it has "lot of fanatics and leaders." But is that how we define religion? At the on-line Websters dictionary, I looked up religion and found this for definition one:quote:
Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
Only with the last definition did I find:quote:
A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
With this definition, you might say that skepticism is a religion, but then so is my support of the Dallas Cowboys, my playing chess, or my love of good wine, all of which I pursue/drink with zeal.
But this clearly isn't your argument. Your saying "skepticism is his religion" isn't like your saying "wine is his religion." You want to equate skepticism with, say, Christianity, or some such. And if so, you're going to need more than fanatics and leaders.
In addition, you might want to cite examples of fanatical skeptics fogiving and giving money to "leaders" who engage in double-speak. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 13:53:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Sometimes skepticism looks like religion because you can find a lot of fanatics and leaders too. No matter mistakes and double speech, the fans always forgive leaders and give money to them.
Your opinion please.
I'm not really sure what you're saying, here. 'Religion' implys worship, and beyond respecting the basic philosophy of skepticism, I worship nothing. Further, make a mistake and I will politly correct you; lie and double-talk me, and I'll either correct you, ignore you, or bust your hump, depending upon how irritated you've made me.
I am not 'led' by anyone. Of course, I can only speak for myself..... Say, are you refering to Randi again? What has he done or failed to do this time?
I have given no money to Randi, although I did make a small donation to SFN a while back and will probably make another when $$ get a little more plentiful; after all, it's the site I regard as home. But you are certainly correct when you say that the fanatical will forgive the leaders. History has proven time and again that the fanatical are idiots. Of course, sometimes that leader get's so outrageous that his followers get unfanatical and run his sorry ass through the mangel. Sadly, this doesn't happen often enough, leaders being what they are.
Here's a site that kinda shows it. And another that is pretty much the same thing but more of it.
Do those featured look like skeptics to you?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 15:39:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Sometimes skepticism looks like religion because you can find a lot of fanatics and leaders too. No matter mistakes and double speech, the fans always forgive leaders and give money to them.
Your opinion please.
Religion is a set of established beliefs, containing some form of a god. Skepticism, on the other hand, is a way of thinking. Skeptics imploy critical thinking in trying to determine if claims are valid or not. Yes, there are leaders of the skeptic world, Sagan, Randi, and so on. However, behind these leaders are thousands of skeptics questioning their actions. When is the last time someone has ever questioned the Pope?
Skeptics disagree over many things, for example conclusions on P.M.C. Some skeptics believe in god, others don't. There isn't one thing you have to accept to be a skeptic, only show that you can think rationally about the world. |
Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 22:06:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Your opinion please.
My opinion is that you are an ignorant individual.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 05:35:51 [Permalink]
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I second that^ motion, and I hope you arent offended. Because most people misinterpret THAT word as well.
Ignorant
Unaware or uninformed
Too bad most folks equate that word with stupid. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 05:41:07 [Permalink]
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"Stupidity has a certain charm - ignorance does not"
-- Frank Zappa |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 06:56:53 [Permalink]
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The only fanatic that I see on this thread so far (Verlich hasn't joined in yet) is you, latinjral. I think you are building up to a 'Randi rant'.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 07:07:36 [Permalink]
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Go rent Penn and Tellers bullshit, lat. There is an interveiw with Randi on it and it will show you why he does what he does.
Randi is the man. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 08:39:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Sometimes skepticism looks like religion because you can find a lot of fanatics and leaders too. No matter mistakes and double speech, the fans always forgive leaders and give money to them.
Your opinion please.
My opinion is that you are a misinformed, vindictive little shit. You've got an axe to grind against James Randi and when your assertations were questioned, you abandoned the discussion.
Return to the thread from whence you came and actually prove your charges. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 08:41:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
My opinion is that you are a misinformed, vindictive little shit. You've got an axe to grind against James Randi and when your assertations were questioned, you abandoned the discussion.
Return to the thread from whence you came and actually prove your charges.
Wow. I guess I should follow up on this Randi thread-- I don't know much about the guy so I never bothered to get into the discussion. But apparently latinijral has been causing problems over there... |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 09:47:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
latinijral:
No matter mistakes and double speech, the fans always forgive leaders and give money to them.
Well, obviously, from reading this question and looking at other threads you started, you have a bug up your ass about Randi. You are wrong if you think all critical thinkers walk in lockstep or sit at our “leaders” feet waiting for their blessed pronouncements. And while critical thinking is a method, sure, there are people in a position to champion the cause. Randi is one of those people.
But here is the thing. I am in deep disagreement with Randi and several other skeptics over how to view the “False Memory Syndrome Foundation.” We will soon be posting a few articles on the subject. There are no sacred cows because skepticism is not a religion. That you have chosen to portray skepticism as a religion based on your disagreements with Randi and the lack of support you are getting for your position just reeks of sour grapes.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 11:18:48 [Permalink]
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Looking forward to that.
So I can be in lockstep that is. 
quote:
Originally posted by Kil
[I am in deep disagreement with Randi and several other skeptics over how to view the “False Memory Syndrome Foundation.” We will soon be posting a few articles on the subject.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 12/13/2004 11:19:58 |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2004 : 12:56:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
I'm not quite sure what everyone is pissed off about, he has attacked Randi and in doing so has shown Randi as he really is; an honest and genuine man. But where is all this (dare I say it?) hate for latinijral coming from? If we think a popular skeptic such as Randi is doing something wrong, we can't fear the consequences of trying to show that he is doing something wrong. However by insulting whoever openly attacks Randi, you bring in those consequences, the same ones that we can't afford to have.
Agreed. No need to lunge for the throat (yet). Me? I ask you to define religion first. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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