|
|
|
questionit
New Member
21 Posts |
 Posted - 01/02/2005 : 21:08:04
|
So I was at work and one of my fellow nurses brought up the tsunami that's killed all those people. We started talking about it, and someone said that a nurse in one of the other departments felt this was "God's way of taking out the nonbelievers."
Funny thing was, this attitude is in keeping with the Old Testament's God. Yet one more reason why I've happily abandoned the camp of the righteous...
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 21:23:03 [Permalink]
|
Hi Question, and welcome!
Yes, you have described a too-often, typical, fundie attitude. The minority of those killed were Christian, thus the 'righteous' feel a certain amount of smug satisfaction.
Such is the charity of the super-faithful of any faith.
 |
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
 |
|
|
@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 22:10:32 [Permalink]
|
What's funny is you don't hear that bullshit when a church burns down. They aren't at all consistent and just fit the excuses so that they don't taste as bitter. If god's way is to kill little children that don't know right from wrong then the real sinners are the one that chose the shitty god.
@ |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
|
|
|
Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 22:25:55 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by questionit
So I was at work and one of my fellow nurses brought up the tsunami that's killed all those people. We started talking about it, and someone said that a nurse in one of the other departments felt this was "God's way of taking out the nonbelievers."
Funny thing was, this attitude is in keeping with the Old Testament's God. Yet one more reason why I've happily abandoned the camp of the righteous...
Hi, questionit, and welcome to SFN! It's tragic that so many fundamentalists view things in this way. I was once told that AIDS was simply God's way of punishing homosexuals. Regrettably, it was in a letter to the editor (the previous week, I had written in questioning some such expression of religious discrimination towards homosexuals or other), so I didn't really have a chance to answer. However, if I had (and if you do), the reply would have been this: if AIDS is your god's way of punishing homosexuals, then why are so many heterosexual non-drug users (e.g. newborn babies, among countless others-- many very religious) also struck down? And how does this paradigm of disease fit in with, say, breast cancer? Is this your god's way of punishing women?
In your example, questionit, one would have to ask how this person's god could be so careless as to kill many thousand Christians with this tsunami? Ineed, why even work within the confines of the natural world? Why not make a tsunami that only killed non-beleivers and left good Christians unharmed? Fuck, why even allow non-beleivers to exist in the first place? Why do a giant-but-still-limited purge every once in awhile when you could just strike a person down the moment she or he says Ehhhh, I don't buy into this god shit anymore right where the person is standing?
Of course, there's no valid answer for this, and it would be worth it to watch the person try in vain to put together a coherent reply. |
|
|
|
BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 06:03:56 [Permalink]
|
| On another forum, I had one guy say it was God's will and that we should pray for the survivors. I asked him if it was Gods will, praying to save them would be an insult to God. I received no good response. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
|
|
|
Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 06:20:58 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
On another forum, I had one guy say it was God's will and that we should pray for the survivors. I asked him if it was Gods will, praying to save them would be an insult to God. I received no good response.
Right! Or, when God does something good (like save coal miners from a collapsed cave), should we pray that there are a few casualties? I don't get these Christians...  |
|
|
|
Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 06:31:08 [Permalink]
|
Dawkins quote in The Guardian :quote:
Not only does science know why the tsunami happened, it can give precious hours of warning. If a small fraction of the tax breaks handed out to churches, mosques and synagogues had been diverted into an early warning system, tens of thousands of people, now dead, would have been moved to safety.
Let's get up off our knees, stop cringing before bogeymen and virtual fathers, face reality, and help science to do something constructive about human suffering.
|
"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
|
|
|
questionit
New Member
21 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 07:18:16 [Permalink]
|
The sad thing is the way people seem to have designed their relatuonship with this God. I remember when I was still in college, in a history class I took we were looking at old newspapers from the great fire of london. The reporter was constantly referring to God's wrath, God's judgment, God this and God that with every block the flames spread to. Then at the end, as the winds were shifting and the fire dying the reporter remarked how God in his mercy had let the fires die.
This reminds me of the relationship between an abused child and his abuser. The child finds reasons to see love in cruelty becquse of the attention. Is anyone here a psychologist? There's probably a name for this condition and this need we have in our ateitude towards this God. When people die God's being punishing, but when the tragedy finally stops he's being merciful. Schizoid, anyone? |
|
|
|
Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 07:44:45 [Permalink]
|
| Those unable to think comes up with such explanations. "God did this because he's angry at us," they say, and at the same time, while reading a report about how rescue workers found a few more survivors, they no doubt exclaim "God is so good to spare their lives!" I suspect it's unnecessary to point out the stupidity of this kind of "thinking." |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
|
|
|
Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 07:48:41 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Starman
Dawkins quote in The Guardian :quote:
Not only does science know why the tsunami happened, it can give precious hours of warning. If a small fraction of the tax breaks handed out to churches, mosques and synagogues had been diverted into an early warning system, tens of thousands of people, now dead, would have been moved to safety.
Let's get up off our knees, stop cringing before bogeymen and virtual fathers, face reality, and help science to do something constructive about human suffering.
I read that too. He points out things that we all should have realised long ago, yet only a few have, and only a few will - the rest will be offended by what he said in the Guardian. Oh well... such is the most intelligent species on the planet. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
|
|
|
verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2005 : 14:18:29 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by questionit
So I was at work and one of my fellow nurses brought up the tsunami that's killed all those people. We started talking about it, and someone said that a nurse in one of the other departments felt this was "God's way of taking out the nonbelievers."
Funny thing was, this attitude is in keeping with the Old Testament's God. Yet one more reason why I've happily abandoned the camp of the righteous...
Don't forget the works of evil by the devil himself.Why do people blame God for tragedy? Death can come today or in 40 years, what does it matter? When natural devestation comes and man does not warn his brethren to their impending doom, how is it Gods fault that man on his own planet didn't save himself from death. The Devil is called the accusar of the brethren because day and night he tells Heaven that fallen men are not worth saving and Jesus works are in vain. Good christians are not perfect themselves and therefore their names are brought up even if their names are in the book of life.
You don't know what miracles God has done for us in our lives. He gives us life and lets us all here live until the day He takes our lives from us and He can do according to His will. The Living God of Abraham didn't stop and take direction from any man, or entity in His creation. Don't flatter yourself because the world isn't put together according to your plans and doesn't fit in your plan of existance. God asks direction from no man, yet the bible tells us Gods' spirit is in every atom in the universe.
In 1 Corinthians 3:16, we see that the Holy Spirit lives inside us: “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
God cares alot for His creation.
Isaiah tells us that God's thoughts and ways are far higher than ours (Isaiah 55:8–9). Not only are His thoughts higher than ours, they are also much faster. He can count the stars! And He has done exactly that; He even gave each one a name: ‘He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names ' (Psalm 147:4). The very next verse emphasizes His greatness: ‘Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.'
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i2/stars.asp
Science 3000 years ago was able to make the pyramids said there are not enough stars to not be able to count them all. You must revise your bible! Little did they know that it now takes 30 million years for a super computer to count all the stars!! |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
|
| Edited by - verlch on 01/11/2005 18:31:53 |
|
|
|
moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2005 : 15:50:35 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Don't forget the works of evil by the devil himself.
Another christian construct because fear is such a good motivator for some.
quote:
You don't know what miracles God has done for us in our lives. He gives us life and lets us all here live until the day He takes our lives from us and He can do according to His will.
Your god should have nver given us such big and complex brains. It allowed us to to find natural explanation for these miracles. Maybe he should have given us all birth marks or a freckle arrangement saying, "Made by God".
quote:
The Living God of Abraham didn't stop and take direction from any man, or entity in His creation. Don't flatter yourself because the world isn't put together according to your plans and doesn't fit in your plan of existance. God asks direction from no man, yet the bible tells us Gods' spirit is in every atom in the universe.
Man created God(s).
quote:
In 1 Corinthians 3:16, we see that the Holy Spirit lives inside us: ?Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you??
No Shit! Hallelujah, I am reborn!
quote:
Isaiah tells us that God?s thoughts and ways are far higher than ours (Isaiah 55:8?9).
Since man created God(s), then I'd say at best god can equal ours.
quote:
Not only are His thoughts higher than ours, they are also much faster. He can count the stars! And He has done exactly that; He even gave each one a name: ?He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names ?
What is the count? How long did it take? What are their names? Ooopps! My apologies verlch, for a moment I forgot that you take all this on faith.
quote:
(Psalm 147:4). The very next verse emphasizes His greatness: ?Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.?
Great power. GREAT POWER! Something with GREAT POWER who loves us and did nothing to protect the tsunami victims. Great power, don't you get it verlch. Your God is malevolent.
edited to correct quotes
|
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 01/08/2005 15:53:08 |
|
|
|
Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2005 : 15:55:36 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by verlch
Don't forget the works of evil by the devil himself.Why do people blame God for tragedy?
Why don't you ask your fellow fundy Christians, verlch. (Doubtless you read and understood that questionit was quoting her Christian co-workers and their idea that their god was somehow using "natural" disaster to kill off non-beleivers, right?)
quote:
Death can come today or in 40 years, what does it matter? When natural devestation comes and man does not warn his brethren to their impending doom, how is it Gods fault that man on his own planet didn't save himself from death.
Huh? I don't follow. Are you arguing that the tsunami isn't Yahweh's fault because humans "[do] not warn [their] brethren to their impending doom"???
quote:
The Devil is called the accusar of the brethren because day and night he tells Heaven that fallen men are not worth saving and Jesus works are in vain. Good christians are not perfect themselves and therefore their names are brought up even if their names are in the book of life.
This doesn't make any sense. Please explain.
quote:
You don't know what miracles God has done for us in our lives.
Interesting. If your god's miracles are so indistinguishable from natural happenings, then what proof is there that he's even doing them?
quote:
He gives us life and lets us all here live until the day He takes our lives from us and He can do according to His will.
Case in point. All of the above sounds a lot like the natural universe acting without the direction of a Supreme Being. Your god is sounding a whole lot like nothing but randomness and nature...
quote:
The Living God of Abraham didn't stop and take direction from any man, or entity in His creation. Don't flatter yourself because the world isn't put together according to your plans and doesn't fit in your plan of existance. God asks direction from no man, yet the bible tells us Gods' spirit is in every atom in the universe.
Oops. Looks like you didn' understand the point of the original thread. Typical. Read it again, verlch. It's the Christians-- you know, the fundies like you!-- who gloat that great natural disasters are the work of their god! And why wouldn't you all think that? After all, isn't written in your holy book that your god killed virtually every living thing on earth with a giant flood?
None of us are bitching about our lives, verlch. In fact, the person who's complained the most about their life is you-- vitrually every thread you write eventually includes a rant about how the various women in your life have screwed things up for you. Perhaps you need to quit bitching and just accept that your god gets a kick out of sending you liberated women to torture you!
quote:
God cares alot for His creation.
So much that he killed almost all of them in a flood, and now sends those that don't kiss his all to suffer for eternity in hell. Your god sounds soooo loving and caring.
[other random Bible verses and rants deleted] |
|
|
|
beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2005 : 22:56:44 [Permalink]
|
The excuse I've heard on a few religious exchanges in the news is, God did this to bring together all the people with different religions. It's sad when you think about it. Kind of like the abused kid who still wants Mom to love him. |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2005 : 23:01:30 [Permalink]
|
verlch wrote:quote:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i2/stars.asp
Science 3000 years ago that was able to make the pyramids said there are not enough stars to not be able to count them all. You must revise your bible!
Clearly, you do not understand the difference between an actual conversation, and the obviously hypothetical conversation invented by Werner Gitt eight years ago. Gitt has put utterly stupid words into the mouths of "astronomers" from 3,000 years ago. The conversation is a straw man, and nothing more.quote:
Little did they know that it now takes 30 million years for a super computer to count all the stars!!
That was eight years ago. According to Moore's Law, it would now take only 744,092 years to count to 1025. And if Moore's Law keeps working for us, it'll be only another 30 years before counting that high will take under a year.
There's "science" for you.
|
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 21:05:38 [Permalink]
|
| Tsunami is devil´s way? |
Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
