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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 10/01/2005 : 16:59:06
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Read about another in the ever increasing list of crimes commited by George W. Bush and his associates. If you don't support impeachment you are part of the problem. If your Senator or Congressman doesn't support and actively pursue impeachment, he/she is a co-conspirator and is guilty of obstruction of justice.quote:
Buying of News by Bush's Aides Is Ruled Illegal...
Federal auditors said on Friday that the Bush administration violated the law by buying favorable news coverage of President Bush's education policies, by making payments to the conservative commentator Armstrong Williams and by hiring a public relations company to analyze media perceptions of the Republican Party.
In a blistering report, the investigators, from the Government Accountability Office, said the administration had disseminated "covert propaganda" in the United States, in violation of a statutory ban.
If you haven't already contacted your representatives, do it now. If you have, let us know how they are responding.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2005 : 20:19:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky...quote:
Originally posted by GeeMack...
If your Senator or Congressman doesn't support and actively pursue impeachment, he/she is a co-conspirator and is guilty of obstruction of justice.
That is a joke, right?
It's only a joke to the losers who have already been defeated by the government. Millions of us still have the desire to retake this country and the guts to do something about it. We realize that impeding the legal effort to prosecute a crime is obstruction of justice. Those of us who haven't had our asses kicked and been turned to cowering wimps by the government have a different take. We understand that their cooperating with criminals to assist them in committing their crimes makes them part of a conspiracy. To us it's deadly serious.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2005 : 22:03:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky...
Of course, I'm not saying I disagree, I certainly think Bush should be impeached. But I simply won't say that those who disagree with me are involved in conspiracy. That is just shifting the evidence to agree with your previously made conclusions.
I probably could have been more clear. My comment about conspirators and obstructing justice wasn't directed at those who disagree with me. The Congressmen and Senators, whose job it is to initiate the impeachment, should be doing that job. If they aren't actively working to impeach Bush, Cheney, & Co., they are either obstructing justice, or conspiring in the commission of the crimes, or both. They certainly aren't unaware of the crimes being committed.
I did say, "If you don't support impeachment you are part of the problem." I don't mean Mr. and Mrs. Joe Citizen are co-conspirators, but it is the public's job to insist that their Congressmen and Senators do their job. I'd go as far as to say if the citizens don't demand that the public servants do their jobs, the citizens aren't fulfilling their responsibility to the system.
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| Edited by - GeeMack on 10/01/2005 22:14:13 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2005 : 23:48:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GeeMack
I don't mean Mr. and Mrs. Joe Citizen are co-conspirators, but it is the public's job to insist that their Congressmen and Senators do their job. I'd go as far as to say if the citizens don't demand that the public servants do their jobs, the citizens aren't fulfilling their responsibility to the system.
What do you expect when both of the major political parties have so many people completely snowed and confused?
A guy at work the other day told me that he had a friend who was doing a report on the No Child Left Behind act, and his friend was having trouble finding Democratic web sites which do more than say "the act sucks." He was asking me if I knew of any sites which would actually explain why the NCLB sucks, because I follow politics marginally more than he does, and he wanted to help his friend.
If such things aren't easy to find, it's no wonder at all that the population in general is largely complacent and uninterested in seeing Bush imprisoned. The Republicans talk louder, and they say nice things. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2005 : 00:42:36 [Permalink]
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quote:
If such things aren't easy to find, it's no wonder at all that the population in general is largely complacent and uninterested in seeing Bush imprisoned. The Republicans talk louder, and they say nice things.
Apathy is king.
Less than 50% of the population of the US bothers to vote.... which says to me that the majority is largely disinterested in politics, politicians, or anything having to do with the whole damned circus.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2005 : 05:01:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
If such things aren't easy to find, it's no wonder at all that the population in general is largely complacent and uninterested in seeing Bush imprisoned. The Republicans talk louder, and they say nice things.
Apathy is king.
Less than 50% of the population of the US bothers to vote.... which says to me that the majority is largely disinterested in politics, politicians, or anything having to do with the whole damned circus.
Ah, next to arthritis and jungle rot, this is my pet peeve. I know people who have never registered and have no intention of doing so, ever.
But with this disasterous administration and it's larcenous Congress, that might change a little (it would, I suppose, be too much to ask for everyone to get out and vote  ).
I think that the worst nightmare an incumbent politition can have is a huge, voter turnout. It signifies that even the dimmist witted is pissed-off enough to no longer be apathetic, and what with gas prices, Iraq insanity, and flagrant government waste and incompentence, even the most lethargic are getting a bit pissed.
DON'T RE-ELECT ANYBODY, NOT EVEN YOUR MAMA!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2005 : 09:15:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by GeeMack
I don't mean Mr. and Mrs. Joe Citizen are co-conspirators, but it is the public's job to insist that their Congressmen and Senators do their job. I'd go as far as to say if the citizens don't demand that the public servants do their jobs, the citizens aren't fulfilling their responsibility to the system.
What do you expect when both of the major political parties have so many people completely snowed and confused?
A guy at work the other day told me that he had a friend who was doing a report on the No Child Left Behind act, and his friend was having trouble finding Democratic web sites which do more than say "the act sucks." He was asking me if I knew of any sites which would actually explain why the NCLB sucks, because I follow politics marginally more than he does, and he wanted to help his friend.
If such things aren't easy to find, it's no wonder at all that the population in general is largely complacent and uninterested in seeing Bush imprisoned. The Republicans talk louder, and they say nice things.
Yes, this has been a problem. The stories of havoc are mostly anecdotal. And speaking of that, Michelle has been, out of our own pocket, making the kids at the school she teaches at lunch, do to budget constraints brought on by NCLB. The schools must comply with the law, which costs money, but no more money is coming into an already over stretched budget... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2005 : 10:43:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GeeMack
Read about another in the ever increasing list of crimes commited by George W. Bush and his associates.
I questioned the "support our troops" crap on another discussion forum which led to me getting banned.
The attack of the people of Iraq is illegal. Does that not make the "troops" criminals? Does that not make every who supports this action in one way or another complicit in this crime?
I know that all those that say that we are opposed to the war should say that we "support our troops," but I wonder why we can't ask the question. Why can't we wonder why they're not just as criminal as anyone else who engages in criminal enterprise?
Those that object to my asking think I'm like them and condemn criminals. I condemn no one. I wish to understand. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2005 : 12:38:24 [Permalink]
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It gets worse (or better, depending on your point of view):
quote:
Source to Stephanopoulos: President Bush Directly Involved In Leak Scandal
Near the end of a round table discussion on ABC's This Week, George Stephanopoulos dropped this bomb:
Definitely a political problem but I wonder, George Will, do you think it's a manageable one for the White House especially if we don't know whether Fitzgerald is going to write a report or have indictments but if he is able to show as a source close to this told me this week, that President Bush and Vice President Cheney were actually involved in some of these discussions.
If this is the real deal, I think that Mr. Fitzgerald would be well advised not to travel on small aircraft.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2005 : 14:04:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by GeeMack
I don't mean Mr. and Mrs. Joe Citizen are co-conspirators, but it is the public's job to insist that their Congressmen and Senators do their job. I'd go as far as to say if the citizens don't demand that the public servants do their jobs, the citizens aren't fulfilling their responsibility to the system.
What do you expect when both of the major political parties have so many people completely snowed and confused?
A guy at work the other day told me that he had a friend who was doing a report on the No Child Left Behind act, and his friend was having trouble finding Democratic web sites which do more than say "the act sucks." He was asking me if I knew of any sites which would actually explain why the NCLB sucks, because I follow politics marginally more than he does, and he wanted to help his friend.
If such things aren't easy to find, it's no wonder at all that the population in general is largely complacent and uninterested in seeing Bush imprisoned. The Republicans talk louder, and they say nice things.
It is the Republicans that have talking points claiming the Dems have no specifics, an outright falsehood. Where did your friend look and just what did he look for?
I can tell you off the top of my head the problem with NCLB Act is that it comes with unfunded mandates and wastes time and money on excessive testing. So I googled and found the same Dem stand readily available.
From CNN, on the google search
quote:
The situation in the schools was just one example of how the Bush administration is at odds with the states -- failing to fund mandates in education, homeland security, and the environment, said Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano.
She said the No Child Left Behind Law passed two years ago had not helped public schools solve their problems. "On the contrary, it has only added to them," Napolitano said in the Democrats' weekly radio address.
The law's mandated student testing and teacher training have come with little funding, forcing many low-income schools to choose between investing in core academic offerings or paying for the new requirements, the Arizona governor said.
The act "is creating havoc in America's public schools," Napolitano charged. "Millions of children are being left behind, and we must fix this problem."
The act requires states to test students in reading and math every year, and penalizes schools if they don't meet standards. Thousands of schools are failing to measure up, and critics in a number of states are upset about the costs of remedial measures required by the law.
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| Edited by - beskeptigal on 10/02/2005 14:05:36 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2005 : 14:05:52 [Permalink]
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| That's what Nuremberg was about, wasn't it? Countries do not invade one another, and troops do not obey illegal orders. Attacking other countries is illegal. This was a criminal action. It was not a "mistake" as many say. It is illegal. Article six (I think) makes treaties the law of the land. Therefore it is a violation of criminal and domestic law. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2005 : 15:09:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky...quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo...
The attack of the people of Iraq is illegal. Does that not make the "troops" criminals? Does that not make every who supports this action in one way or another complicit in this crime?
Imagine an army where the troops could choose which orders to follow and not to follow. How could that ever function? The answer is simple, it can't. So we are left with only one choice, troops must obey orders. Now of course, ones that are glaringly obvious do not apply such as "Shoot yourself in the head."
Support the troops because it was not their choice to go there. A gun was figuratively put up to there head and they were given the command, "attack."
Gorgo is right. The war in Iraq is an illegal act, and the troops should not be supported in their effort to fight that war. A soldier has a duty to obey lawful orders, and a duty to disobey unlawful orders. Unfortunately the mantra, "Support the Troops," is a misdirection device used by the warmongers to get continued support for their illegal war.quote:
A Duty to Disobey All Unlawful Orders...
The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the "lawful command of his superior officer," 891.ART.91 (2), the "lawful order of a warrant officer", 892.ART.92 (1) the "lawful general order", 892.ART.92 (2) "lawful order". In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.
To genuinely support the troops we would be doing what is best for them, and for the defense of this country. We should be demanding that our representatives initiate impeachment proceedings against the orchestrators of the illegal war in Iraq, and we should be demanding that the troops are removed from participation in that war. The people with those cute little yellow "Support the Troops" magnets stuck all over their cars typically don't agree with that position. They support the war and expect the troops to just do what they're told.
Support the troops, but only with some very specific qualifiers. Support the troops, bring them home. Support the troops, end the war. Support the troops, impeach George W. Bush. But to suggest without qualifiers that we support the troops because they're just doing what they're told is simply conceding that the war in Iraq is an acceptable action.
For further reading... Google: disobey illegal orders
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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