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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 02/02/2006 : 20:48:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
[quote]Originally posted by Bill scott
Your rant about my rant on homos is unfounded. I clearly said
As I am a Wiccan and have been for 16 years and I don't spend a significant amount of my day posting here, I'll call your rant here bullshit. You have been shown your intolerance of others so you have melted down into a ball of projection. Old tactic. I've seen it before.
OK, this is starting to get a little out of hand so please allow me a minute to give my offical postion on everything.
The thread started with Bill O and went to ACLU. One of my problems with the ACLU is that they choose to fight for the rights of men who operate a site that is in favor of man/boy sex. ACLU throws children under the bus in name of free speach for those that desire a day when man/boy sex will be legal. Legaly, yes ACLU has ground to stand on. Does that make it right to help defend the rights of a group where everyone knows damn well man/boy sex has already taken place? No, of coarse not.
If the group was catholic priest who wanted to support a site on the web that promoted man/boy sex and the ACLU wanted to help hide their ID I would have just as big of problem with that as ACLU batting for nambla.
If a group of pastors wanted to start a web site that promoted man/boy sex and the ACLU wanted to help protect their ID then I would have just as big a problem with this as nambla or preist.
If a group of conservative religos dads want to start a web site for the promotion of man/girl sex and the ACLU wanted to help hide their ID then I got a big problem with this. Just as big as with the nambla, preist, and pastors.
Now since everyone seems to have an opinion about my veiw on homo sex I will give it to you. I do not think anyone should be beat up, threatened, or worse over different beliefs. No one! And if someone does any of the mentioned to any human for having different views on life they should face the law and penalty for doing so.
My personal belief is that homo sex is not natural in any worldview.
Place 100 homo sex men on a deserted island, in the tropics, that could sustain human life and then come back in 70 years. They can have all the homo sex their hearts desire, but at the end of the 70 years when we go back to the Island it will be... well, deserted.
Place 100 homo sex women on a different island and let them have all the sex their hearts desire and when you return in 70 years you have a...well, a deserted Island.
Place 50 hetro men and 50 hetro women on their deserted, but tropical Island, and let them have sex until they want no more. At the end of their 70 years go back to the Island and you have... well, you will have several generations by then.
No mater how you want to spin it reality dictates that this is an unnatural practice.
It is my 1st amen. right, backed by the ACLU, to have such views. If that makes me a bigot, homophope, hate filled, etc... in your eyes then I am sorry for that. It still does not change the way I think about them.  |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2006 : 21:04:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
I do not think anyone should be beat up, threatened, or worse over different beliefs. No one! And if someone does any of the mentioned to any human for having different views on life they should face the law and penalty for doing so.
Face the law? You just got done saying you have no respect for an organisation whose only mission is to ensure the law is upheld. It's clear that you have no respect for the law.
quote:
No mater how you want to spin it reality dictates that this is an unnatural practice.
Well, homosexuality is "natural" in that it is found throughout nature. Gays can't reproduce, but then again neither can sterile heterosexual couples, yet no one is trying to change the constitution so sterile couples can't marry. Do you find sterile heterosexuals "unnatural" too, Bill? Do they turn your stomach to the same degree, or is there something more about homosexuality you find objectionable that you haven't yet mentioned?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2006 : 21:05:31 [Permalink]
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Bill scott asserted: quote:
It is my 1st amen. right, backed by the ACLU, to have such views.
It's nice to see that even you give the ACLU due credit for defending your right to express your beliefs. I presume you also would want them to protect your Constitutional right to privacy, and your right to due process under the law. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/02/2006 21:08:30 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2006 : 22:55:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
My personal belief is that homo sex is not natural in any worldview.
Except for reality, as has been mentioned to you already.
But be sure you mention that to the gay penguins.
I guess they are just influenced by the devil.... though why the devil would bother I have no idea.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 00:13:27 [Permalink]
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Damn. A long post went to hell because of ****** Internet Explorer.
I'm to tired to re-type it all right now.  |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 02/03/2006 00:16:02 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 02:22:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
...gay penguins.
I guess they are just influenced by the devil.... though why the devil would bother I have no idea.
For the same reason he put fossils in the ground. Sorry, I couldn't help myself. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 02:23:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Damn. A long post went to hell because of ****** Internet Explorer.
I'm to tired to re-type it all right now.
I feel your pain, man. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 02:26:29 [Permalink]
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So gay partnerships don't produce offspring without additional material. Big deal. By that standard the elderly should never remarry when widowed now should they? How unnatural.
And while I admit to not reading every word in your rants, Bill, I don't see in your summary of personal views any response to my question about public defenders representing child rapists, your tax dollars paying the salary of those public defenders nor do I find your response to my examples of innocent persons accused of child rape. Could you address those issues please? |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/03/2006 02:31:01 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 04:26:33 [Permalink]
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If I might be permitted a bit of quote mining... quote:
(bill) My rant from the start was about the ACLU defending the rights of those who wish to have man/boy sex legal. Your the one that kept turning this into a homo issue with your stats.
So.... I see that you do indeed understand that the ACLU is not defending those people, merely their rights as guarnteed to all citizens by the Constitution of the United States. That's ALL citizens, Bill, not just the ones that you or I might approve of.
The Constitution gaurntees all citizens their day in court and the oportunity to face their accusers, and to have legal representation. Again, that's ALL citizens. You don't get to pick and choose who has constitutional rights and who doesn't, although the treasonous Bush ("It's just a goddamned piece of paper!") is trying.
Here's something that you might find enlightening. Or not, as I doubt that you'll open any link that might clash with your world view: quote:
The American system of government is founded on two counterbalancing principles: that the majority of the people governs, through democratically elected representatives; and that the power even of a democratic majority must be limited, to ensure individual rights.
Majority power is limited by the Constitution's Bill of Rights, which consists of the original ten amendments ratified in 1791, plus the three post-Civil War amendments (the 13th, 14th and 15th) and the 19th Amendment (women's suffrage), adopted in 1920.
The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:
Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the strict separation of church and state.
Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.
Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.
Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.
In brief, if you deny constitutional rights to one, untimatly you deny them to all. You cannot be selective as to who deserves these rights -- ALL citizens deserve them and it is the ACLU's mission to ensure that ALL citizens retain them.
Now, if you don't like it that the Constitution gives these rights to all, even the queers and equally, even the loathsome Fred Phelps, well, you can always emigrate to some country that has no such stumbling blocks on the road to it's version of justice; a country that is ruled by the devout, and those devout have the final say in all matters. They tell me that Terhan is a pleasant city this time of year albeit a bit noisey five times a day, when the mullahs get tuned up. But it has the singular advantage of being a theocratcy and, as I understand it, has some laws that can get a homosexual publicly hanged for no more than being a homosexual. Neat, huh?
I noticed that you claim to have dropped the dime on some kiddie-stalkers. Good on you, if true, and what are the followups? Was sufficent evidence gathered for charges to be laid? If it comes down to it, will you give testimony; face them in court?
Or did you simply try to blow off someone that you didn't like? That sort of foul and vindictive bahavior occurs every day you know, and is at least part of the reason for the ACLU's existance: to protect the innocent and the falsely accused, as well as seeing to it that even the guilty get their day in court.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 05:49:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
My personal belief is that homo sex is not natural in any worldview.
Except for reality, as has been mentioned to you already.
But be sure you mention that to the gay penguins.
I guess they are just influenced by the devil.... though why the devil would bother I have no idea.
But be sure you mention that to the gay penguins.
(bill) Gay penguins. Gay penguins. Just saying that brings me a chuckle. Gay penguins, like gay monkeys, or gay tigers, or gay lions, would be acting and performing unnatural activities that their anatomy, obviously, was not designed for. Put 100 (I can't believe I have to say it again) gay penguins in a segregated community and come back in 20 years and you will find.... well, you will find no more penguins. Put 50 hetro male penguins and 50 hetro female penguins in segregation and come back in 20 years and you will find... well, you will find a community of penguins. This is not very difficult to understand. I am surprised that you are having trouble here.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 05:52:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
So gay partnerships don't produce offspring without additional material. Big deal. By that standard the elderly should never remarry when widowed now should they? How unnatural.
And while I admit to not reading every word in your rants, Bill, I don't see in your summary of personal views any response to my question about public defenders representing child rapists, your tax dollars paying the salary of those public defenders nor do I find your response to my examples of innocent persons accused of child rape. Could you address those issues please?
So gay partnerships don't produce offspring without additional material. Big deal.
(bill) No, it is a very big deal. It empirically demonstrates that homo sex is unnatural in any worldview you care to subscribe to. You must have male and female involved in sexual relations to create a society. Without this the civilization is doomed. Yes you can artificial impregnate a women. But this still requires a man and a women and it is not natural. You CAN NOT artificially impregnate a man with man's sperm nor can impregnate a women with some women sperm. It takes male and female for society to advance, period. This is just the way natural selection, or the creator, which ever you subscribe to, designed it. This can not be disputed. It is a clear fact of reality. If you choose to spin, ignore, or to deny reality then I can no longer help you.
By that standard the elderly should never remarry when widowed now should they? How unnatural.
(bill)Why? Just because someone's tools have worn out with age this does not make them unnatural.
Now, when you try to use a tool for a purpose it was not designed for then it is unnatural weather the tool is old or new.
example: Trying to stick a penis in the anal of another is not a smart thing to do male or female. It was not designed to do this nor was the anal designed to expect it. This will cause all kinds of troubles for both parties and is unhealthy behavior which produce expected results.
And while I admit to not reading every word in your rants, Bill,
(bill) As long as you caught my summary you'll be just fine.
I don't see in your summary of personal views any response to my question about public defenders representing child rapists, your tax dollars paying the salary of those public defenders
(bill) Well it is law that the defendant be given representation and this is where the PD comes in. It is not law that the ACLU, a private firm, pick up a defense case where they will provide sanctuary for those whose seek man/boy sex.
nor do I find your response to my examples of innocent persons accused of child rape.
(bill) Why is this relevant to the ACLU defending the rights, therefor defending them, of man/boy sex sympathizers?
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 06:38:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
So gay partnerships don't produce offspring without additional material. Big deal. By that standard the elderly should never remarry when widowed now should they? How unnatural.
And while I admit to not reading every word in your rants, Bill, I don't see in your summary of personal views any response to my question about public defenders representing child rapists, your tax dollars paying the salary of those public defenders nor do I find your response to my examples of innocent persons accused of child rape. Could you address those issues please?
So gay partnerships don't produce offspring without additional material. Big deal.
(bill) No, it is a very big deal. It empirically demonstrates that homo sex is unnatural in any worldview you care to subscribe to. You must have male and female involved in sexual relations to create a society. Without this the civilization is doomed. Yes you can artificial impregnate a women. But this still requires a man and a women and it is not natural. You CAN NOT artificially impregnate a man with man's sperm nor can impregnate a women with some women sperm. It takes male and female for society to advance, period. This is just the way natural selection, or the creator, which ever you subscribe to, designed it. This can not be disputed. It is a clear fact of reality. If you choose to spin, ignore, or to deny reality then I can no longer help you.
No, Bill. unnatural means not occurring in nature. Homosexuality occurs in nature in over 50 distinct species. Therefore, it is natural. Homosexuality does not produce offspring. All that statement does is identify that this sexual genetic predisposition does not conform to the mechanism of sexual reproduction. Neither does hetrosexual sex between sterile subjects. Yet you refuse to call this unnatural. We do not ignore these facts, we just refuse to allow you to redefine what the word "natural" means.
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 02/03/2006 06:40:57 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 07:25:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
So gay partnerships don't produce offspring without additional material. Big deal. By that standard the elderly should never remarry when widowed now should they? How unnatural.
And while I admit to not reading every word in your rants, Bill, I don't see in your summary of personal views any response to my question about public defenders representing child rapists, your tax dollars paying the salary of those public defenders nor do I find your response to my examples of innocent persons accused of child rape. Could you address those issues please?
So gay partnerships don't produce offspring without additional material. Big deal.
(bill) No, it is a very big deal. It empirically demonstrates that homo sex is unnatural in any worldview you care to subscribe to. You must have male and female involved in sexual relations to create a society. Without this the civilization is doomed. Yes you can artificial impregnate a women. But this still requires a man and a women and it is not natural. You CAN NOT artificially impregnate a man with man's sperm nor can impregnate a women with some women sperm. It takes male and female for society to advance, period. This is just the way natural selection, or the creator, which ever you subscribe to, designed it. This can not be disputed. It is a clear fact of reality. If you choose to spin, ignore, or to deny reality then I can no longer help you.
No, Bill. unnatural means not occurring in nature. Homosexuality occurs in nature in over 50 distinct species. Therefore, it is natural. Homosexuality does not produce offspring. All that statement does is identify that this sexual genetic predisposition does not conform to the mechanism of sexual reproduction. Neither does hetrosexual sex between sterile subjects. Yet you refuse to call this unnatural. We do not ignore these facts, we just refuse to allow you to redefine what the word "natural" means.
No, Bill.
(bill) Yes dancer
unnatural means not occurring in nature. Homosexuality occurs in nature in over 50 distinct species.
(bill) This does not make it a natural act. Only the hetro animals will advance the speices. The homo penguins, lions, tigers, and bears (oh my) will all die off and leave us with nothing if left to their own.
Therefore, it is natural.
(bill) Just because an animal performs an act, this by default, does not make it natural. A male dog might be seen trying to hump another male dog and the homo naturalist will scream, "look, look, a homo dog." They fail to realize that 5 minutes before he was humping his buddy he was trying to hump his masters leg, 5 minutes before that he was trying to hump the telephone pole. Humping a telephone poll is not natural dog activity just because the dog tried to do it.
By your standard a doctor performing an artificial pregnancy is natural. Man, which is an animal, performed the act so it must be natural. (sigh)
Homosexuality does not produce offspring.
(bill) So a society full of homos dies out, while a society full of hetros creates generations. That is just the facts of life bro weather you like them or not.
All that statement does is identify that this sexual genetic predisposition does not conform to the mechanism of sexual reproduction.
(bill) Which means that homo society, on their own, would die out in a generation or two. While hetor society, on their own, would thrive. That is nature dude and your just out of luck if you don't like this.
Neither does hetrosexual sex between sterile subjects. Yet you refuse to call this unnatural.
(bill) AGAIN, if a tool does not work because of age, or it had a defect, this does not mean the tool is unnatural. If you try to use a hammer to pound a nail and the handle breaks this does not mean it is unnatural to use a hammer to drive a nail. Come on, this is not that difficult.
Now, if you try to use a tool for a job it was not designed for (example: a wrench to pound a nail, a hammer to turn a nut, put a penis inside an anal) then this would be an example of unnatural tooling. Again, I am surprised that you are struggling to grasp this.
We do not ignore these facts,
(bill) The lengths you will go to to prop up your smoke and mirrors and denial that homo sex is unnatural is nothing short of amusing
we just refuse to allow you to redefine what the word "natural" means.
(bill) Rather we must use your definition right? (sigh) 
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2006 : 07:45:48 [Permalink]
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Bill, you forget one little fact. Not all homosexuals are unable to produce viable offspring with partners of the opposite gender. The same is true for humans and animals. Many men and women who are homosexual do produce living, fertile, healthy offspring with partners of the opposite sex, whether by reproductive drive to have offspring (contrary to their own taste) while engaging in their activities with others of the same gender. Only because a stallion likes to hump another stallion and even prefers to do so (this has been observed both in the wild and in captivity) doesn't mean he won't hump a mare when she's breedable. Mares often hump each other, as well, and will shun a male from their presence if they aren't breedable.
Face it, Bill. No matter how much you try, your opinion won't change reality.
Edited to add;
Place 50 heterosexual males in an island and you'll get... what? |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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| Edited by - Siberia on 02/03/2006 07:47:27 |
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