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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 03/24/2006 : 00:45:32
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I cease to be surprised by stuff like this, yet it still depresses me. http://www.ur.umn.edu/FMPro?-db=releases&-lay=web&-format=umnnewsreleases/releasesdetail.html&ID=2816&-Find
From article on a study done at the U. of Minnesota: quote:
From a telephone sampling of more than 2,000 households, university researchers found that Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in “sharing their vision of American society.” Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2006 : 03:46:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
I cease to be surprised by stuff like this, yet it still depresses me. http://www.ur.umn.edu/FMPro?-db=releases&-lay=web&-format=umnnewsreleases/releasesdetail.html&ID=2816&-Find
From article on a study done at the U. of Minnesota: [quote]
From a telephone sampling of more than 2,000 households, university researchers found that Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in “sharing their vision of American society.” Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry.
Bustd link, Marf.
I'll bet that they don't distrust atheists nearly as much as I distrust the devout. I've never had an atheist try to rip me off, but scams in the name of Jesus are manifest.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2006 : 05:35:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
From article on a study done at the U. of Minnesota: quote:
From a telephone sampling of more than 2,000 households, university researchers found that Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in “sharing their vision of American society.” Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry.
Yes, and I would bet that many from the sampling have a well trusted friend who just might be an atheist. Living and working in the Carolinas its not something I talk freely about. Unless, of course, they are trying to sell me a subscription to Watch Tower. I had one sales person tell me that it also talks about "How Atheist Believe". Hind sight being what it is I wish I had pursued this a bit more, but I didn't. I suspect she was upset when I said no to her sales offer by saying that "I wasn't very superstitious". They are a sensitive and persecuted lot. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2006 : 08:54:52 [Permalink]
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As we atheists prosecute those poor christians so much, this is not surprising.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2006 : 23:24:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
I cease to be surprised by stuff like this, yet it still depresses me.
One needn't be depressed. One should understand that there are various peoples in the world and not all are going to think the same. (and you can't force them)
The reason for distrust of any group is lack of understanding, like fear of the unknown.
Getting depressed over something like that IMO is a waste of brain function.
CuriousCreations.com |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2006 : 23:36:11 [Permalink]
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Snake wrote: quote:
One needn't be depressed. One should understand that there are various peoples in the world and not all are going to think the same. (and you can't force them)
The reason for distrust of any group is lack of understanding, like fear of the unknown.
I think it is far more complicated than that. Nazis didn't demonize the Jews because of "fear of the unknown". Nor do Muslims persecute Christians and Buddhists in certain countries because of "fear of the unknown". Sometimes it is about creating a scapegoat, a bad guy. One thing the article says is: quote:
Edgell also argues that today's atheists play the role that Catholics, Jews and communists have played in the past—they offer a symbolic moral boundary to membership in American society.
I mean, just look at how fundamentalist Christians have latched on to blaming "Secular Humanists" (a minority of less than a million, poorly organized, Americans), gays and feminists for all sorts of social problems. It isn't that they don't understand atheists, gays, feminists, etc. They think they do understand them! It is that they want an ememy, a demon, some group to blame, and rally around bullshit accusations as a way to gain group power. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2006 : 01:19:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
I think it is far more complicated than that. Nazis didn't demonize the Jews because of "fear of the unknown". Nor do Muslims persecute Christians and Buddhists in certain countries because of "fear of the unknown". Sometimes it is about creating a scapegoat, a bad guy. One thing the article says is: quote:
Edgell also argues that today's atheists play the role that Catholics, Jews and communists have played in the past—they offer a symbolic moral boundary to membership in American society.
I mean, just look at how fundamentalist Christians have latched on to blaming "Secular Humanists" (a minority of less than a million, poorly organized, Americans), gays and feminists for all sorts of social problems. It isn't that they don't understand atheists, gays, feminists, etc. They think they do understand them! It is that they want an ememy, a demon, some group to blame, and rally around bullshit accusations as a way to gain group power.
Why do people always bring up the Nazis? Hum! Did they alone demonize the Jews, I thought they just hated them. That is understandable though.
I do not agree with you, I still say the lack of understanding is the cause.
Who ever that Edgell guy is, I don't think he is totally correct.
No, they don't understand gays. Gays aren't only in one group either, anyway so I don't think they do understand them.
I don't see how any intelligent person would have a low opinion of an atheist. So, the people talked about in that report are not intelligent. And who cares about them anyway.
SEE! No reason to be depressed.
CuriousCreations.com |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2006 : 01:29:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
I don't see how any intelligent person would have a low opinion of an atheist. So, the people talked about in that report are not intelligent. And who cares about them anyway.
SEE! No reason to be depressed.
Yea, the jews of europe thought so to.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2006 : 02:44:19 [Permalink]
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The intent of propaganda is to get a populace behind it's leaders against another people or ideas. The Nazis were very good at it.
Nazi Propaganda quote:
Propaganda was central to Nazi Germany. This page is a collection of English translations of National Socialist propaganda for the period 1933-1945, part of a larger site on German propaganda. The goal is to help people understand the great totalitarian systems of the twentieth century by giving them access to primary material. The archive is substantial. If you are looking for something specific, try the search function available at the bottom of the page. For further information on the German Propaganda Archive, see the
The best way to demonize a people is to make them appear sub-human, which the Nazis did. Too often, our politicians and preachers borrow pages from their book.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 03/25/2006 02:47:57 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2006 : 03:08:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
Why do people always bring up the Nazis? Hum! Did they alone demonize the Jews, I thought they just hated them. That is understandable though.
It's "understandable" that the Nazis hated Jews? Would you mind clarifying that statement a bit, Snake?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 03/25/2006 03:09:11 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2006 : 12:25:04 [Permalink]
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Snake wrote: quote:
Why do people always bring up the Nazis? Hum! Did they alone demonize the Jews, I thought they just hated them. That is understandable though.
I'm not clear about why you say it is understandable that the Nazis hated the Jews. The Jews is Germany were not the cause of Germany's problems, but they were used as a scapegoat, exactly the same way gays and feminists are being blamed for high divorce rates, child abuse, AIDS, and "Secular Humanists" are being blamed for moral decline in America.
quote:
No, they don't understand gays. Gays aren't only in one group either, anyway so I don't think they do understand them.
A lot of people who demonize gays indeed do not understand gays. There are a lot of ideas about gays like that they are all promiscuous, that they choose to be gay, that they have a mental disorder, or that they are prone to be child molestors. But that isn't hating people because of fear of the unknown. That is hating people because of misconceptions, which is again the same thing the Nazis did with the Jews and the same thing that is being done to atheists. People don't think they don't understand atheists. They think they do understand atheists! Also, there are plenty of gay-haters who don't hold any misconceptions about gays.
quote:
I don't see how any intelligent person would have a low opinion of an atheist. So, the people talked about in that report are not intelligent. And who cares about them anyway.
SEE! No reason to be depressed.
Oh gee, and then everything will be hunky dory, eh? Oh wait, if the voting majority in a Democracy thinks atheists are dangerous, what could possibly happen to us if they start being able to recognize us, and if things get worse economically and such and the majority needs someone to blame... The Jews in Germany started being persecuted after they gained greater organized visibility in the community, and atheists have been trying to do exactly that. And with our national debt and the shrinking middle class, things could get worse in this country. It is not totally insane to fear that in the relatiavely near future, atheists could feel the sting of organized persecution. That is exactly why we need to be aware of attitudes like this survey show, and not just brush them off. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2006 : 12:59:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Starman
As we atheists prosecute those poor christians so much, this is not surprising.
I assume you meant persecute? Funny. A Google search of the word persecute gets you several sites noting the difference between the two words, implying the wrong word is chosen rather than a typo. I would think it was almost always just a typo. |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2006 : 14:11:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I assume you meant persecute? Funny. A Google search of the word persecute gets you several sites noting the difference between the two words, implying the wrong word is chosen rather than a typo. I would think it was almost always just a typo.
Your right that was a typo.
Stupid spell check, why can't it detect that I used the wrong word?
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2006 : 14:50:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthyquote:
Originally posted by Marfknox
From article on a study done at the U. of Minnesota:
Bustd link, Marf.
Filthy, try this link-fix.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 03/25/2006 14:55:01 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2006 : 17:21:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
I'm not clear about why you say it is understandable that the Nazis hated the Jews.
Sometimes 1st impressions do count. (the last few years I have met some Jews who are nice and I see that there are various kinds.)
But having grown up around Jews in a neighborhood that was probably 99% Jewish I even thought that the whole world was Jewish, I saw that they can be annoying.
Besides anyone who believes in a god and pretty much started this whole mess that's in the world of today, that's something to consider too.
The rest of your comments were not related to what I was saying so I don't want to reply to something that was getting off the subject. |
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