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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2006 : 08:27:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Marf:
The video is honest enough to admit that they are grouping agnostics with atheists, but they don't cite where they got any of their statistics, and that alone should concern any good skeptic.
I haven't seen the video so I can't comment on it. What I can say is that I am agnostic. And it is my agnosticism that explains why I am also an atheist. Show me an agnostic who is a theist.
Also, there is so much overlap between the two it seems legitimate to me to include agnostics and atheists together, especially when talking about freethinkers or humanists.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 09/08/2006 : 13:17:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
There are no foxes in atheist-holes.
There, I've wanted to mention that fact for a very long time. I got nothing else.
Once in a while, something so obvious, so wonderfully blatant, comes along that you sit back and say: "Damn, Sam!"
You say that because it had never crossed your mind; never dawned upon you to simply swap a couple of words and jigger an idiotic saying that has been around since WW-II, and you're sick of hearing it.
Thanks, 'mooner! 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
 Posted - 09/08/2006 : 21:20:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
There are no foxes in atheist-holes.
Ah, I always wondered what the term a-holes was about. Now I know.
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John's just this guy, you know. |
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2006 : 01:19:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
There are no foxes in atheist-holes.
There, I've wanted to mention that fact for a very long time. I got nothing else.
This is blatantly untrue. A fox couold be easily enticed into an atheist hole as long as the atheist wasn't in itat the time. When I have the time I plan to dig some holes and see if any foxes enter them. |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 09:02:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Marf:
The video is honest enough to admit that they are grouping agnostics with atheists, but they don't cite where they got any of their statistics, and that alone should concern any good skeptic.
I haven't seen the video so I can't comment on it. What I can say is that I am agnostic. And it is my agnosticism that explains why I am also an atheist. Show me an agnostic who is a theist.
Also, there is so much overlap between the two it seems legitimate to me to include agnostics and atheists together, especially when talking about freethinkers or humanists.
I'm agnostic because Faith there's No God is too much faith, IMO. I think there's a big difference between the two, btw. |
-Chaloobi
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 09:05:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
There are no foxes in atheist-holes.
There, I've wanted to mention that fact for a very long time. I got nothing else.
This is blatantly untrue. A fox couold be easily enticed into an atheist hole as long as the atheist wasn't in itat the time. When I have the time I plan to dig some holes and see if any foxes enter them.
I was under the impression that an atheist's hole is too small for a fox. I'm told light bulbs and gerbels will fit in just about anyone's hole, though. Is an atheist's hole different somehow? |
-Chaloobi
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 12:30:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
For the last 4 months I've had sub-sonic vibrations in my condo, courtesy of the ventilation system. In the beginning, only my girlfriend noticed it, but had trouble sleeping because of it.
As time progressed, she started sleeping at her father's house in order to get some decent sleep. But it didn't stop there. Both she and now finally I have developed physical manifestations of these subsonic vibrations that are so faint it's under my perception threshold. But never the less, I'm having trouble sleeping. Waking up many hours too soon, my abdomen involuntarily shivering from tension I have no control over, and my back is a bit sore in the general height of the diaphragm where most of the shivering occurs. My GF is taking sleeping pills and a mild relaxant in order to sleep, and I've been prescribed medication too.
This week we had a visit from the county's "environmental and safety inspection" (not exactly, and I can't find a translation of the agency in charge of this kind of errand). They have the governmental power to force the Condo's board to take action to rectify the situation. The board hasn't received any complaints from any other condo-owner, and believes that we are just over-sensitive, and considers our problem a non-issue.
I hope the inspector took impression of the visit he made and help make things right. The apartment we own is fantastic, though a bit on the pricey side, but we love it and don't want to move out. Which we would have to do if nothing gets done with the ventilation system.
Just wanted to get this off my chest. Thanks for listening.
I'm afraid your concerns are misguided. You and your girlfriend are obviously the victims of alien abduction. Its classic: trouble sleeping, waking up early, abdominal sensitivity, sore back, vague feelings of unease. That rumbling sound is probably their warp engines. Get an x-ray and check for implants. I had mine removed and I'm doing much better.
You're welcome. |
"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 12:45:34 [Permalink]
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http://www.noisefree.org/newsroom/archive/articleinfrasound.htmlquote:
Medical research over the past four decades shows that exposure to infrasound can have devastating effects on the human body and mind that go far beyond mere hearing loss.
This controversial medical condition, vibroacoustic disease, has only been recognized since the 1970's, said Dr. Robert Fifer, Director of Audiology and Speech Language Pathology at the Mailman Center for Child Development at the University of Miami.
"You don't see it much outside an industrial or military environment," Fifer said. "You see it once in a while in a 'sick building,' but everybody in that building will show some type of stress-induced illness."
The culprit isn't so much the infrasound's frequency, or pitch, as it is its amplitude, or loudness, measured in a logarithmic unit called decibels.
"Whenever a sound is beyond 80-90 decibels, the body reacts to it by increasing its stress reaction," Fifer said. "When a human body is exposed to high intensity sound, it releases stress hormones, starting with adrenalin. The blood pressure shoots up, respiration becomes more rapid, the heart rate increases and the body in general is working much harder than it usually would. It's under a generalized stress situation."
In other words, the body's "fight or flight" response can be triggered by a sound you can't even hear. It's called "large pressure amplitude and low frequency" noise, or LPALF for short.
Long-term exposure to stress hormones can, in turn, cause unhealthy physical changes, including heart disease, ulcers, fatigue, back pain, headaches and joint pain, to name but a few.
(emphasis mine)
While it seems this may be a possible explanation for your symptoms, doc, the article indicates that a loud amplitude is a requirement, as it usually only manifests itself in industrial or military environments. So it would seem that more people than just you and your girlfriend would be affected if this were the cause.
One question I have for you is this: if the sound is "so faint it's under [your] perception threshold," how is it that you were able to determine the ventilation system is the culprit?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/11/2006 13:16:42 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 13:14:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Marf:
The video is honest enough to admit that they are grouping agnostics with atheists, but they don't cite where they got any of their statistics, and that alone should concern any good skeptic.
I haven't seen the video so I can't comment on it. What I can say is that I am agnostic. And it is my agnosticism that explains why I am also an atheist. Show me an agnostic who is a theist.
Also, there is so much overlap between the two it seems legitimate to me to include agnostics and atheists together, especially when talking about freethinkers or humanists.
I'm agnostic because Faith there's No God is too much faith, IMO. I think there's a big difference between the two, btw.
quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Marf:
The video is honest enough to admit that they are grouping agnostics with atheists, but they don't cite where they got any of their statistics, and that alone should concern any good skeptic.
I haven't seen the video so I can't comment on it. What I can say is that I am agnostic. And it is my agnosticism that explains why I am also an atheist. Show me an agnostic who is a theist.
Also, there is so much overlap between the two it seems legitimate to me to include agnostics and atheists together, especially when talking about freethinkers or humanists.
I'm agnostic because Faith there's No God is too much faith, IMO. I think there's a big difference between the two, btw.
While I agree that any faith of a religious kind is too much faith, which is one reason identify as agnostic, most of the atheists I know, including those who post on these boards are as open to evaluating new evidence as much as I am on the subject. So it often comes down to which word you think is most precise when defining where you're coming from. In truth, the overlap is great.
Plus, are you a theist? What do you call someone who is not a theist?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2006 : 13:57:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
One question I have for you is this: if the sound is "so faint it's under [your] perception threshold," how is it that you were able to determine the ventilation system is the culprit?
It's below my sense threshold, but my girlfriend can sense it. So can my brother.
And today I got another visit from the health-inspector, and even he thought he could feel it.
We have measured an increase in sound-pressure in the infra sound range with a SPL-meter, though it's the vibration transmitted through the superstructure, and through the frame of the bed, and the sofa, that is causing the stress. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2006 : 20:53:42 [Permalink]
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Hey, filthy, look what crawled through my backyard on Saturday:
Its shell was about eight inches, front to back. I'm pretty sure, just from how it looked and its reactions, that it was a snapper. I must admit to poking it with a nice long piece of PVC tubing, to get it to "pose" for me.
Unfortunately, some of the best "poses" I got turned out fuzzy, probably because the dang thing wouldn't stay still for long, so I was being hasty with taking the photos.
When I had to go inside to get fresh camera batteries, the turtle left. Unfortunately, I followed its trail in the grass to the storm drain on my property. If it survived the six-foot fall, and can navigate the neighborhood trash, it'll wind up in a nice, wet drainage pond. The kids know not to play in there. I don't know what I would have done if it had tried to stick around, anyway. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2006 : 01:37:49 [Permalink]
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Yup, snapper (Chelydra serpentina), a little one! Can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure it's a female. The tail appears short which would put the cloaca almost under the shell. If it were a male, the tail would be longer with the cloaca a little distance out.
It would have certainly have survived the fall -- you just don't get much tougher than these guys.
If you must pick one up, do so by it's tail. It has a very long neck, as well as a fiesty disposition, and that's the only place on it where it can't reach your hand.
Neat pics, Dave. Thanks for the look!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2006 : 08:22:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
quote:
Originally posted by Kil
<snip>
I'm agnostic because Faith there's No God is too much faith, IMO. I think there's a big difference between the two, btw.
quote:
Originally posted by chaloobi
quote:
Originally posted by Kil
<snip>
I'm agnostic because Faith there's No God is too much faith, IMO. I think there's a big difference between the two, btw.
While I agree that any faith of a religious kind is too much faith, which is one reason identify as agnostic, most of the atheists I know, including those who post on these boards are as open to evaluating new evidence as much as I am on the subject. So it often comes down to which word you think is most precise when defining where you're coming from. In truth, the overlap is great.
Plus, are you a theist? What do you call someone who is not a theist?
Labels labels labls.... what to categorize yourself as... 
I'd call myself an Agnostic Deist because:
A. I believe all revealed religion to be false. That is, IF there is a god of any kind, it apparently hasn't communicated to human beings - and certainly not to found any of the nonsense we see in the world's religions today.
B. I can't bring myself to accept the universe is completely without purpose or whatever (call it a flaw, but it's where the Deism part comes from). I am willing to accept the possibilty of a purpose to which we are completely irrelevant (which would explain a lot).
C. I'm not willing to accept the existance of a creator/purpose without some kind of compelling evidence (that's the agnosticism).
In short, I'm Conflicted about the whole thing. But I wouldn't call myself an Atheist, at least not as I have come to define it based on conversation with self-professed atheists I know. It may be this discussion all comes down to definition, but to me atheism is a certainty there is no god of any kind. That certainty is something I can't accept. |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 09/18/2006 10:51:52 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2006 : 14:41:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Yup, snapper (Chelydra serpentina), a little one!
After doing some more reading, it seems that by its size, it was probably somewhere between 3 and 5 years old.quote:
It would have certainly have survived the fall -- you just don't get much tougher than these guys.
Well, with all the neighborhood kids around, someone else is inevitably going to find the thing. Should I call animal control, or do you happen to know of any Northern Virginia reptile rescuers?quote:
If you must pick one up, do so by it's tail.
I've also read that this can hurt the turtle. The prefered method appears to involve using a shovel, and the second choice is grabbing the shell right over the hind legs. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2006 : 15:42:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Yup, snapper (Chelydra serpentina), a little one!
After doing some more reading, it seems that by its size, it was probably somewhere between 3 and 5 years old.quote:
It would have certainly have survived the fall -- you just don't get much tougher than these guys.
Well, with all the neighborhood kids around, someone else is inevitably going to find the thing. Should I call animal control, or do you happen to know of any Northern Virginia reptile rescuers?quote:
If you must pick one up, do so by it's tail.
I've also read that this can hurt the turtle. The prefered method appears to involve using a shovel, and the second choice is grabbing the shell right over the hind legs.
No telling where it is by now-- some kid might have it in an aguarium. Hard to tell for sure by the photos, but I think your age estiment is pretty good.
A tail injury might occure in very small juveniles, or large, heavy, old specimens, especally if they are handled roughly. I have an aluminum grain scoop that I bought for the first snapper I rehabbed. It had been shot and handling it by the tail was not an option (catching it, I grabbed it by the neck with the snake tongs and a courageous friend lifted it into the truck). Over the years, that scoop has seen a fair amount of use.
Of course, you don't hold the animal suspended any longer than you have to, or you may well injure it.
I must warn: don't try to grab these guys anywhere on the shell. That will work on the big alligator snappers, but not so well with the common. They are much more agile and a lot faster. I learned that the hard way at something like age 11. That's a bite that will live in your memory long after the scars have faded away.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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The Water Cooler
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