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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
 Posted - 09/27/2006 : 12:41:16 [Permalink]
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| Also, I would like everyone who addresses me to first tell me how they believe the world was created, and any religion or belief system you have. If you believe in the Big Bang, than please tell me so. If your a Satanist or an agnostic or an atheist or a Scientolgist please tell me first. If you don't want to do that, than one has to wonder why. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
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Antigone
New Member
44 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 12:49:12 [Permalink]
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GK Paul, can you please list all the evidence you said you based your belief of God on?
intellectual evidence + empiricle evidence + historical evidence |
Mortui non dolent |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 12:52:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Antigone
GK Paul, can you please list all the evidence you said you based your belief of God on?
intellectual evidence + empiricle evidence + historical evidence
Please respond to my statement in the previous post and I will respond to yours as time permits. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 13:01:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Also, I would like everyone who addresses me to first tell me how they believe the world was created, and any religion or belief system you have. If you believe in the Big Bang, than please tell me so. If your a Satanist or an agnostic or an atheist or a Scientolgist please tell me first. If you don't want to do that, than one has to wonder why.
In what way could that information be relevant to this topic? Is it possible that you believe that this info could somehow be advantageous to your argument? Should you begin making one. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 13:02:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Scientists and people in this forum talk of the Big Bang. Show me proof it happened. Both require faith, but as I said before, I believe the Big Bang requires more faith.
Wait one damn minute. You come here espousing your beleifs. We challenge you for proofs of YOUR BELIEFS. You have not answered, and are now trying to evade answering.
What does the Big Bang have to do with the existence and attributes God anyway? I'll answer it for you. It doesn't. So your request is nothing more than smokescreen so you can weasel out of answering the questions put before you.
And what, pray tell, do you understand the Big Bang to be? Is your understanding of it as complete as your understanding of evolution as evidenced by your other posts on that subject? Or maybe as complete as your understanding of Lucifer from your own religion?
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 09/27/2006 13:16:12 |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 13:05:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Also, I would like everyone who addresses me to first tell me how they believe the world was created, and any religion or belief system you have. If you believe in the Big Bang, than please tell me so. If your a Satanist or an agnostic or an atheist or a Scientolgist please tell me first. If you don't want to do that, than one has to wonder why.
This isn't about our beliefs. It is about yours.
You are weasling out of answering. One wonders why. We asked you first. Answer the question. Provide proof of a god, then provide proof that your god is the god.
Otherwise, move on.
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 14:20:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Also, I would like everyone who addresses me to first tell me how they believe the world was created, and any religion or belief system you have. If you believe in the Big Bang, than please tell me so. If your a Satanist or an agnostic or an atheist or a Scientolgist please tell me first. If you don't want to do that, than one has to wonder why.
Okay, though an answer is irrelevant and your demand was clearly nothing more than the last of a myriad of distractions to avoid answering the questions you were asked, I'll play your silly game and answer anyway.
I'm an atheist. Meaning, in my case, I see no evidence of deities. In biology and cosmology, I accept that science is the best available approach to learning truths.
I applaud others for not answering your irrelevant questions, but to get past your latest imposed blockade, I've personally caved in to your demand. Now it's your turn. You've run out of excuses.
Now: What are your definitions of "God the Father," "God the Son," "the Holy Spirit," and "soul"? After that answer, what is your evidence for each? Now, without delay: Stand and deliver, God boy.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 14:29:52 [Permalink]
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I'm an agnostic, and as a consequence of that I am also an atheist.
Here is the evidence for the big bang:
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest.html
Now, back to your refusal to define your god and provide evidence for it.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 14:56:31 [Permalink]
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Hello,
My name is Dr. Mabuse, and I'm an Agnostic.
Well, I'm not really Agnostic. Depending on my mood, I swing between Atheist, through agnostic to anti-theist. As an atheist I hold a grievance against Organised Religion, and when I'm anti-theist I hold a grievance against God. It's an after-effect of religious indoctrination in my youth.
I don't know enough about Satanism to know if I could be described as one. However, they do believe in the ultimate freedom of choice, and that appeals to me.
I don't believe in anything but adhere to the scientific method. This means that I think that the theory of Biological Evolution is the best explanation for the diversity of life on Earth, and that the Big Bang theory best describes the early history of the Universe.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Some might say rudeness is a sin.
...And others say that rudeness is in the eye of the beholder.
You have a really thin skin. Are you really up to discussions on a board such as this? I find your proselytising offencive, but I'm not playing Drama Queen.
quote:
...their report card (the Bible) was the greatest seller in the history of mankind.
Soon to be surpassed by Steven Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" and the IKEA-catalogue. Remember, the Bible has about 550 years head start (counting from Gutenberg's Bible).
quote:
If you have anything better to offer mankind your welcome to submit a manuscript to publishers.
I believe both Hawking and IKEA are doing that.
You wrote to Marfknox:
quote:
Your statement that my analogy is "totally flawed" is rude. So I won't take the time to respond.
Oh, don't be such a cry-baby.
She was being honest (a character-trait you should appreciate).
And she did back her statement up, by explaining how and why the analogy was flawed. That is not being rude, it's trying to be helpful: trying to make you understand why your analogy was flawed so you would have the opportunity to learn something. If you understand where you were flawed this time, then maybe your next analogy would be better.
You are the one being rude by dismissing Marfknox explanation, and not being willing to examine her reasoning when you expect us to read what you are writing. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 15:16:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Also, I would like everyone who addresses me to first tell me how they believe the world was created, and any religion or belief system you have. If you believe in the Big Bang, than please tell me so. If your a Satanist or an agnostic or an atheist or a Scientolgist please tell me first. If you don't want to do that, than one has to wonder why.
Okay, though an answer is irrelevant and your demand was clearly nothing more than the last of a myriad of distractions to avoid answering the questions you were asked, I'll play your silly game and answer anyway.
I'm an atheist. Meaning, in my case, I see no evidence of deities. In biology and cosmology, I accept that science is the best available approach to learning truths.
I applaud others for not answering your irrelevant questions, but to get past your latest imposed blockade, I've personally caved in to your demand. Now it's your turn. You've run out of excuses.
Now: What are your definitions of "God the Father," "God the Son," "the Holy Spirit," and "soul"? After that answer, what is your evidence for each? Now, without delay: Stand and deliver, God boy.
I thank you for telling me your an atheist, but please tell me how you believe the world was created. And if you rephrase the post without being rude, I will give a response. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 15:44:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
... And if you rephrase the post without being rude, I will give a response.
If you can't stand the heat ...
btw. Do you still consider your Bible unreliable because of its imperfect human authors?
I do not adhere to the tenets of any religion nor do I expect to. If you tell me that your God is going to send me to Hell, then it's your Gods fault, it should have left better evidence, any evidence for that matter. Testimonials and a large number of believers does not constitute evidence.
Now in reagrds to evidence tell us about that "intellectual evidence + empirical evidence + historical evidence" you have. Did you really mean empirical? Look at part 3 of the definition.
edited do-to-did |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 09/27/2006 15:48:18 |
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Antigone
New Member
44 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 15:58:47 [Permalink]
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GK Paul, I was reading all the previous posts while you wrote that last post asking for all that info. This is my first time posting anything in this thread, so I don't really see how the post/request you asked of everyone else pertains to me asking you for the evidence you based your belief in the Christian God on. (sorry for the run-on sentence there..).
All I want is an answer.
Here is the info you requested.
Your questions were: A. tell me how they believe the world was created, B. and any religion or belief system you have. C. If you believe in the Big Bang, than please tell me so. D. If your a Satanist or an agnostic or an atheist or a Scientolgist please tell me first. If you don't want to do that, than one has to wonder why.
A. By world I assume you mean the earth. I think the world was created ever a very long time, after our sun started its nuclear reaction and the material around it collided together to make the planets we see now. (this is over simplifying it). I also think the molecules and codons have a predictable behavior and will come together to make 'life happen' anywhere conditions are right ... history tells us earth's conditions where right for life.
B. In my intro a few days ago I explained my religious background and Faith. But I will elaborate a little more here. I have faith that there is a god, though there is no way to prove this or use the scientific method. I am not a christian, a jew, a muslim, pagan, etc. I do not try to get others to believe in what I have faith in and I do not claim this god is real, tangible, or fact. It is something very personal for me.
C. I think the Big Bang Theory is a sound theory. Do I think this universe came into being this way? I think it is highly possible.
D. I am neither of these things. I do not label my faith, and if I HAD to label it none of these terms would come close to describing it ... except perhaps agnostic if you take it to mean "it cannot be known." I have ideas, but thats all.
Now, please answer my question. If you want to comment on the answers I have given you please be sure to not forget to answer my original question in your post. Here it is again just in case you forgot:
can you please list all the evidence you said you based your belief of God on?
intellectual evidence + empiricle evidence + historical evidence
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Mortui non dolent |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 16:17:01 [Permalink]
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Ok, I'll play your game.
Hello. My alias is Siberia, which is not my true name. I have no belief in anything remotely resembling a deity, though I do follow, or try to follow, the tenets of Buddhism for the benefit of my own existence, and chose it as my lifestyle philosophy (though that choice is tentative at best). Please, keep in mind Buddhism is an inherently atheist religion, and that I do not follow, nor agree with, everything in it. Reincarnation is one such things I do not believe in from Buddhism. I was raised as a Christian, though I never believed in it.
I concede there might be a deity. I concede I cannot prove one or many does not exist. I am willing to change my opinion if evidence is shown. Thus far, I have seen no evidence of any deity. Therefore, I am an agnostic; and my belief is atheistic.
I accept, by logic alone, and rational understanding alone, without any emotion beyond exhasperation against ignorance (not saying you are ignorant; just ignorance in general), that the current, more probable explanation of the Universe's origin is the Big Bang theory. I have studied it enough to be convinced that it is reasonable. I am also honest enough to acknowledge it may be wrong, as any other piece of science ever done, in face of other, further, unknown evidence.
There. Now please answer the questions. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 16:19:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Also, I would like everyone who addresses me to first tell me how they believe the world was created, and any religion or belief system you have. If you believe in the Big Bang, than please tell me so. If your a Satanist or an agnostic or an atheist or a Scientolgist please tell me first. If you don't want to do that, than one has to wonder why.
That's a cop out.
I personally have no problem letting you know that my world view is based on the scientific method. I have no religion as commonly defined. I'm generally happy with the labels "Atheist" and "agnostic". "one has to wonder why" you care so much. I'm guessing that you'll use the labels to make judgements on peoples comments without addressing the arguments themselves. I, like Halfmooner, support others' decision to not address the issue, but don't mind doing so myself, as I don't see much chance of a rational argument originating from yourself any time soon. Yes, I know that's a little "rude", but based on the evidence presented here so far, it's a logical conclusion.
I see no reason to go into theories of planetary development, but suffice to say I believe that scientists have a pretty good understanding on how the earth was formed. The early origin of the universe is a bit sketchier, although I'd have to say that the Big Bang looks like the most sensible explanation at this point. Please note that this neither precludes nor requires any particular deity.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Your statement that my analogy is "totally flawed" is rude. So I won't take the time to respond.
It's only rude because you don't agree. I assure you that these two comments of yours:
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Christ never gave a definition of the True Supreme God but if you read the Gospels: Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John, I believe you'll get a feeling for the God I'm talking about.
and
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
humble yourself and repent to God for any wrongdoings you've done in your life. It's not necessary for you to understand God or the Bible completely at this time. But Christians believe if you repent and are sincere God will reveal Himself to you over time and you'll have your answer.
are far more rude/offensive to a thinking person, and also to religious followers of non-christian faiths. I sort of understand why you don't think they're rude. At any rate it's no excuse for me to get all whiny and refuse to participate in the debate at all.
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John's just this guy, you know. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 17:29:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Also, I would like everyone who addresses me to first tell me how they believe the world was created, and any religion or belief system you have. If you believe in the Big Bang, than please tell me so. If your a Satanist or an agnostic or an atheist or a Scientolgist please tell me first. If you don't want to do that, than one has to wonder why.
Okay, though an answer is irrelevant and your demand was clearly nothing more than the last of a myriad of distractions to avoid answering the questions you were asked, I'll play your silly game and answer anyway.
I'm an atheist. Meaning, in my case, I see no evidence of deities. In biology and cosmology, I accept that science is the best available approach to learning truths.
I applaud others for not answering your irrelevant questions, but to get past your latest imposed blockade, I've personally caved in to your demand. Now it's your turn. You've run out of excuses.
Now: What are your definitions of "God the Father," "God the Son," "the Holy Spirit," and "soul"? After that answer, what is your evidence for each? Now, without delay: Stand and deliver, God boy.
I thank you for telling me your an atheist, but please tell me how you believe the world was created. And if you rephrase the post without being rude, I will give a response.
Despite my carrying out your ridiculous and irrelevant demand, you have yet again exposed your dishonesty by not delivering upon your promise, GK Paul. To put it bluntly, you lied. (Why am I not surprised?) Isn't that what you hypocrites call "bearing false witness"?
If you consider "God boy" to be rude, please know it was intended to be a little insulting, while expressing a sense of your smarmy, ignorant self-righteousness. I save the stronger names for those who are fully adult. I do think calling you "God boy" was nicer than being patronizing to you.
Meanwhile, you have been enormously rude to the skeptics here, by repeatedly evading honest answers, and by refusing to read or respond to their intense efforts to educate you, in another thread, on the subject of evolution.
And you are an ingrate. You expressed vast ignorance of evolution and science, but we began pulling our punches a bit when we found out you were only 17. The good people here tried to enlighten you about the process that's called science, and about its discoveries.
Instead, you remain the worst kind if ignoramus: A person who won't lift a finger to try to learn, even when the information is served to you, at great effort, upon a silver platter. You just bob and weave, so the truth won't besmirch your pure soul.
Me, I'm sick of your little game. Your youth, in itself, has been exhausted as an excuse for your boneheaded, deliberate ignorance, and your intellectual dishonesty. I give up, God boy.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 09/27/2006 17:32:57 |
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