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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2006 : 17:19:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
As far as why Price thinks Atwill is wrong, Price states that he believes Atwills story is "absurd". He states that the so called elaborate joke that the Romans and Josephus were trying to pull, is not on the reader, but "Rather the joke is on Atwill, whose great learning has apparantly driven him mad."
Justification like that isn't going to win many arguments. That's just an insult. Surely, there is something more substantial than name calling to reference. Or is the bulk of his argument that Atwill has been driven mad. So Price has a degree in psychology? What a learned man he must be.
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Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
 Posted - 12/22/2006 : 02:17:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by @tomic
quote:
As far as why Price thinks Atwill is wrong, Price states that he believes Atwills story is "absurd". He states that the so called elaborate joke that the Romans and Josephus were trying to pull, is not on the reader, but "Rather the joke is on Atwill, whose great learning has apparantly driven him mad."
Justification like that isn't going to win many arguments. That's just an insult. Surely, there is something more substantial than name calling to reference. Or is the bulk of his argument that Atwill has been driven mad. So Price has a degree in psychology? What a learned man he must be.
@
Well you should read the whole article (The web link is listed in my post made 12/20 at 05:22 I'm not going to repeat the whole review in here. There's plenty of justification in the long article. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
| Edited by - GK Paul on 12/22/2006 02:23:06 |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2006 : 05:52:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by @tomic
quote:
As far as why Price thinks Atwill is wrong, Price states that he believes Atwills story is "absurd". He states that the so called elaborate joke that the Romans and Josephus were trying to pull, is not on the reader, but "Rather the joke is on Atwill, whose great learning has apparantly driven him mad."
Justification like that isn't going to win many arguments. That's just an insult. Surely, there is something more substantial than name calling to reference. Or is the bulk of his argument that Atwill has been driven mad. So Price has a degree in psychology? What a learned man he must be.
Well you should read the whole article (The web link is listed in my post made 12/20 at 05:22 I'm not going to repeat the whole review in here. There's plenty of justification in the long article.
Then I suspect that you picked this quote because it appealed to you. That you found it significantly more compelling than anything else that Price said about the book in that long, long article. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2006 : 04:16:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Just for the record, the historical figure Paul did meet Peter, the first Pope of the historical Catholic Church and namesake of the huge St Peter's basilica in the heart of the historical Roman Empire. Their meeting is in Acts ch.15 vs. 4-32. The tremendous growth of Christianity just didn't spring up out of thin air - there were real historical people behind it.
Maybe Atwill should walk around St. Peter's square with a sign saying this is all a fairy tale.
GK Paul, the 15 days that Paul spent with Peter is in Galatians 1:18 & occurs 3 yrs after his conversion. The meeting in Acts 15 never indicates duration of time; that meeting seems to be the one Paul describes in Galatians 2, which he says occurred 14 years after that. It's interesting that Paul's account in Galatians 2 differs so much from the account in Acts 15.
Acts 15:7-14 portrays Peter and Paul both, together, at the council of Jerusalem, persuading elders that Gentiles shouldn't have to follow Jewish laws. Men on a mission - together, in agreement. But in Galatians 2, Paul writes that he privately talked with "those who seemed to be leaders", and that in Antioch he "opposed [Peter] to his face, because he was so clearly in the wrong", calls Peter hypocritical and says he wasn't acting in line with the truth they'd received.
Paul says in Galatians 2:13 that Barnabas was drawn astray by Jews with Peter's beliefs, whereas Acts 15:37-40 says they parted ways over a disagreement whether to bring John/Mark with them.
It looks like Paul's writings make Paul out to be the guy who knows The Truth & everyone else is wrong, whereas Acts makes Paul look like a wanna-be who hangs around with the "in" crowd until he gets peeved. (I'm exaggerating, but not much.) Reads alot like these are differing accounts by people with their own agendas, & with different perceptions of the same events.
And it's stuff like that (example after example) that makes it all look like a collection of writings by human beings, unassisted by any supernatural power. |
I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2006 : 13:44:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by @tomic
quote:
As far as why Price thinks Atwill is wrong, Price states that he believes Atwills story is "absurd". He states that the so called elaborate joke that the Romans and Josephus were trying to pull, is not on the reader, but "Rather the joke is on Atwill, whose great learning has apparantly driven him mad."
Justification like that isn't going to win many arguments. That's just an insult. Surely, there is something more substantial than name calling to reference. Or is the bulk of his argument that Atwill has been driven mad. So Price has a degree in psychology? What a learned man he must be.
Well you should read the whole article (The web link is listed in my post made 12/20 at 05:22 I'm not going to repeat the whole review in here. There's plenty of justification in the long article.
Then I suspect that you picked this quote because it appealed to you. That you found it significantly more compelling than anything else that Price said about the book in that long, long article.
When one author calls another author "mad" I think that is significant. And after reading the New Testament and a good portion of Caesar's Messiah I would have to say I agree with Price's assessment. Either that or as I said in another forum, Atwill saw the huge money Dan Brown made off Jesus and Atwill's atheistic businessman instincts got the better of him. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
| Edited by - GK Paul on 12/23/2006 13:59:47 |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2006 : 14:25:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Zebra
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Just for the record, the historical figure Paul did meet Peter, the first Pope of the historical Catholic Church and namesake of the huge St Peter's basilica in the heart of the historical Roman Empire. Their meeting is in Acts ch.15 vs. 4-32. The tremendous growth of Christianity just didn't spring up out of thin air - there were real historical people behind it.
Maybe Atwill should walk around St. Peter's square with a sign saying this is all a fairy tale.
GK Paul, the 15 days that Paul spent with Peter is in Galatians 1:18 & occurs 3 yrs after his conversion. The meeting in Acts 15 never indicates duration of time; that meeting seems to be the one Paul describes in Galatians 2, which he says occurred 14 years after that. It's interesting that Paul's account in Galatians 2 differs so much from the account in Acts 15.
Acts 15:7-14 portrays Peter and Paul both, together, at the council of Jerusalem, persuading elders that Gentiles shouldn't have to follow Jewish laws. Men on a mission - together, in agreement. But in Galatians 2, Paul writes that he privately talked with "those who seemed to be leaders", and that in Antioch he "opposed [Peter] to his face, because he was so clearly in the wrong", calls Peter hypocritical and says he wasn't acting in line with the truth they'd received.
Paul says in Galatians 2:13 that Barnabas was drawn astray by Jews with Peter's beliefs, whereas Acts 15:37-40 says they parted ways over a disagreement whether to bring John/Mark with them.
It looks like Paul's writings make Paul out to be the guy who knows The Truth & everyone else is wrong, whereas Acts makes Paul look like a wanna-be who hangs around with the "in" crowd until he gets peeved. (I'm exaggerating, but not much.) Reads alot like these are differing accounts by people with their own agendas, & with different perceptions of the same events.
And it's stuff like that (example after example) that makes it all look like a collection of writings by human beings, unassisted by any supernatural power.
Whatever happened in the early Christian church they got job done. Reagan, Carter, and Bush Jr. were all born-again Christians. That would have never happened without the work of the early Christian church. You can analyze it until your blue in the face - they got the job done. If the Roman empire was as committed, it would still be around. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
| Edited by - GK Paul on 12/25/2006 03:16:03 |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2006 : 14:37:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
When one author calls another author "mad" I think that is significant.
It is significant and it's also significant that you choose to focus on it so much. How can either you or Price be qualified to make such an assessment? Not that it matters. It's nothing more than an ad hominen attack that says more about the person doing the attacking than anything else.
@ |
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting |
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2006 : 02:35:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by @tomic
quote:
When one author calls another author "mad" I think that is significant.
It is significant and it's also significant that you choose to focus on it so much. How can either you or Price be qualified to make such an assessment? Not that it matters. It's nothing more than an ad hominen attack that says more about the person doing the attacking than anything else.
@
Hitler tried to destroy the Jews. The atheistic businessman Atwill is trying to destroy Christianity. If more people would have publically said Hitler was "mad" after reading Mein Kampf maybe 60 million people would not have perished. |
"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist
"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton
GK Paul |
| Edited by - GK Paul on 12/24/2006 03:38:12 |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2006 : 09:51:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul:
quote:
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Originally posted by @tomic
quote:
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When one author calls another author "mad" I think that is significant.
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It is significant and it's also significant that you choose to focus on it so much. How can either you or Price be qualified to make such an assessment? Not that it matters. It's nothing more than an ad hominen attack that says more about the person doing the attacking than anything else.
@
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Hitler tried to destroy the Jews. The atheistic businessman Atwill is trying to destroy Christianity. If more people would have publically said Hitler was "mad" after reading Mein Kampf maybe 60 million people would not have perished.
I nominate this for Worst Analogy of the Year.  |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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McQ
Skeptic Friend
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2006 : 12:53:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by R.Wreck
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul:
quote:
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Originally posted by @tomic
quote:
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When one author calls another author "mad" I think that is significant.
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It is significant and it's also significant that you choose to focus on it so much. How can either you or Price be qualified to make such an assessment? Not that it matters. It's nothing more than an ad hominen attack that says more about the person doing the attacking than anything else.
@
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Hitler tried to destroy the Jews. The atheistic businessman Atwill is trying to destroy Christianity. If more people would have publically said Hitler was "mad" after reading Mein Kampf maybe 60 million people would not have perished.
I nominate this for Worst Analogy of the Year.
Seconded! |
Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Gillette |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2006 : 22:12:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
When one author calls another author "mad" I think that is significant.
Several authors of this board have expressed an opinion about you that is not flattering. I think that is significant.
quote:
And after reading the New Testament and a good portion of Caesar's Messiah I would have to say I agree with Price's assessment.
After reading a good portion of your posts, I'll have to say I agree with their assessments.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Neurosis
SFN Regular
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2006 : 22:40:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by moakley
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by @tomic
quote:
As far as why Price thinks Atwill is wrong, Price states that he believes Atwills story is "absurd". He states that the so called elaborate joke that the Romans and Josephus were trying to pull, is not on the reader, but "Rather the joke is on Atwill, whose great learning has apparantly driven him mad."
Justification like that isn't going to win many arguments. That's just an insult. Surely, there is something more substantial than name calling to reference. Or is the bulk of his argument that Atwill has been driven mad. So Price has a degree in psychology? What a learned man he must be.
Well you should read the whole article (The web link is listed in my post made 12/20 at 05:22 I'm not going to repeat the whole review in here. There's plenty of justification in the long article.
Then I suspect that you picked this quote because it appealed to you. That you found it significantly more compelling than anything else that Price said about the book in that long, long article.
When one author calls another author "mad" I think that is significant. And after reading the New Testament and a good portion of Caesar's Messiah I would have to say I agree with Price's assessment. Either that or as I said in another forum, Atwill saw the huge money Dan Brown made off Jesus and Atwill's atheistic businessman instincts got the better of him.
So you are persuaded by name calling and identify with it and you develop your opinions not from finishing the work you criticize, but from other peoples assessments. |
Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson
[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink
Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.] |
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Neurosis
SFN Regular
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2006 : 22:49:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
quote:
Originally posted by @tomic
quote:
When one author calls another author "mad" I think that is significant.
It is significant and it's also significant that you choose to focus on it so much. How can either you or Price be qualified to make such an assessment? Not that it matters. It's nothing more than an ad hominen attack that says more about the person doing the attacking than anything else.
@
Hitler tried to destroy the Jews. The atheistic businessman Atwill is trying to destroy Christianity. If more people would have publically said Hitler was "mad" after reading Mein Kampf maybe 60 million people would not have perished.
Are you serious? Historically alot of people did think (before and after his reign) Hitler was crazy. Also, alot of people thought he was a kook before he gained any favor. In any case, this has nothing to do with the book Atwill or Atheism.
Despite what you wish to believe, the "atheist agenda" (whatever that is) many people seemed to have fabracated is not to destroy Christianity or other religion. If there were an atheist agenda it would be religious freedom. It is quite the opposite I am afraid, for it is the Christian agenda to force their religion on us not the other way around, with us forcing you to have no religion.
Do you ever wonder GK why it is that you are always the one preaching? Do you ever find yourself approached on the street and unconfortably forced into a conversation over why you should not believe in god? |
Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson
[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink
Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.] |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2006 : 10:20:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Whatever happened in the early Christian church they got job done. Reagan, Carter, and Bush Jr. were all born-again Christians. That would have never happened without the work of the early Christian church. You can analyze it until your blue in the face - they got the job done.
Got the job done? Well that is pretty vague. Unless your intent is that getting the job done equates to electing a christian to office. I suspect that at one level or another all we have every elected have been Chrsitians. Only Reagan and Bush have tried to use religion for some political advantage.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
If the Roman empire was as committed, it would still be around.
The Roman Empires collapse was not due to a lack of religious commitment. It was due to the high cost of maintaining the empire. They were already taxing their citizens to death. Huge debts ensued, sources of income dried up.
See a pattern here? Our government has ran up a huge debt and so far other countries have been willing to finance our annual deficits. What happens when this source of income dries up? The good lord will provide? |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Caesar's Messiah by Joseph Atwill
