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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 19:50:15 [Permalink]
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You know, another thing wrong with ergo's dreamt-up explosives scenario is that all the perimeter columns were mostly outside the building's windows. Surely someone would have noticed workmen removing the aluminum sheathing on the outside of the building to install teensy-weensy charges that could have fit between the columns and the sheathing. Surely it wouldn't have required the removal of bomb dogs from inside the building to do all the outside work (helicopter the explosives to the roof, and install them using the window-washing system already installed).
Inside the building, there was only a 2" or so slab of vermiculite plaster up against the inside face of the columns. As filthy knows, a single charge placed against a column would have to have been huge to actually damage the thing, and then we wouldn't be seeing "squibs" blowing out windows but actual columns being blown to pieces on the lower floors.
So, the only sane place to put any charges would be the columns in the core. Aside from the logistical problems already noted, the major problem with this idea is that large vertical sections of the cores of both buildings remained standing for some time after the floors and perimeter columns had fallen away. We've got photographic and video evidence of this.
Therefore, the only (generously) intriguing possibility is that the PANYNJ allowed people to rig the perimeter with some ineffectual explosives, and also allowed the installation of armor-plated explosive charges around some columns in the core. They had to be hugely armor-plated themselves to withstand the collapse of the rest of the buildings. And even then, the PANYNJ conspirators who helped in this plot had to pray that no wires had been cut and/or that no radio detonators had been disabled by falling debris from the floors and perimeter walls.
Dammit, I'm doing his homework again. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
 Posted - 10/17/2006 : 19:57:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
You know, another thing wrong with ergo's dreamt-up explosives scenario is that all the perimeter columns were mostly outside the building's windows. Surely someone would have noticed workmen removing the aluminum sheathing on the outside of the building to install teensy-weensy charges that could have fit between the columns and the sheathing. Surely it wouldn't have required the removal of bomb dogs from inside the building to do all the outside work (helicopter the explosives to the roof, and install them using the window-washing system already installed).
Inside the building, there was only a 2" or so slab of vermiculite plaster up against the inside face of the columns. As filthy knows, a single charge placed against a column would have to have been huge to actually damage the thing, and then we wouldn't be seeing "squibs" blowing out windows but actual columns being blown to pieces on the lower floors.
So, the only sane place to put any charges would be the columns in the core. Aside from the logistical problems already noted, the major problem with this idea is that large vertical sections of the cores of both buildings remained standing for some time after the floors and perimeter columns had fallen away. We've got photographic and video evidence of this.
Therefore, the only (generously) intriguing possibility is that the PANYNJ allowed people to rig the perimeter with some ineffectual explosives, and also allowed the installation of armor-plated explosive charges around some columns in the core. They had to be hugely armor-plated themselves to withstand the collapse of the rest of the buildings. And even then, the PANYNJ conspirators who helped in this plot had to pray that no wires had been cut and/or that no radio detonators had been disabled by falling debris from the floors and perimeter walls.
Dammit, I'm doing his homework again.
So much for not picking on my made-up scenario... I'm beginning to think you are retarded, Dave. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 20:24:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
So much for not picking on my made-up scenario...
No, I admittedly did that in a previous post, and you properly did not comment on it. In my last post, I was criticizing all possible scenarios in which explosives were used to bring the towers down. If explosives are included, then the PANYNJ must have been in cahoots with the ultimate perpetrators of the collapses in order to get the job done. And if that's the case, then the statements of anyone involved in the clean-up afterwards are suspect, for the same reasons that you were previously objecting to evidence sourced from the Federal Government. It seems to me that this state of affairs makes almost any sort of evidence you wish to present self-impeaching.quote:
I'm beginning to think you are retarded, Dave.
I'm beginning to think that your insults mean you have nothing of substance to present, and are simply wasting time here trying to get people to forget that you said you would provide some sort of evidence of something. That particular insult also makes me think that either you're not nearly as old as you earlier implied, or that you don't possess the degrees you earlier claimed. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 21:18:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
So much for not picking on my made-up scenario...
quote:
No, I admittedly did that in a previous post, and you properly did not comment on it. In my last post, I was criticizing all possible scenarios in which explosives were used to bring the towers down.
Wow! How omniscient of you.
quote:
If explosives are included, then the PANYNJ must have been in cahoots with the ultimate perpetrators of the collapses in order to get the job done.
And why do you believe that? Silverstein was the landlord.
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No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
| Edited by - ergo123 on 10/17/2006 21:22:29 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2006 : 02:40:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
Okay--they hired a bunch of guys to go into the towers to "upgrade" all the tenants' Internet access points--the wires that bring the service to their office, ahead of each company's firewall/router/whatever. Under that cover, they'd have all the time in the world, and reason to be crawling around in the ceilings and floors, to get to where they needed to go to place any detonation equipment they would need later. Then once the bomb dogs were pulled from the buildings, they went in and attached the explosive devices. All in plain sight--the most surreptitious way to get anything done.
 Can't be done that way. Ergo, you're really reachin' for it and gettin' funnier with each and every post. Go to the links I posted in the other thread, and you'll get a laugh too. Or not....
Pass the popcorn, Doc!  
And what evidence do you have for this claim?
Didn't open the links I gave you in the other thread, did you?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Scotty
New Member
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2006 : 03:06:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Let's say you want to start a global war against terrorism,
I'm sorry I don't follow , GW and the incumbent before showed very little intrest in pursuing anything other than a domestic agenda, at least that how it seemed to me 3000 miles away from the US,Somalia anyone...
We're supposed to accept that all of a sudden the US DOD and others suddenly feel the need to change the goverment of Afghanistan, a country most people on the planet can't find on a map.. and to do that they engage in a huge complex conspiracy to destroy some buildings in New York .. I'm sorry , at this point william of Occam is starting to turn rapidly in his grave...
AS for Iraq , as one time supporter of the over throw of Saadam , I'm prepared to belive that there may have been a slim, very slim justification for the initail assult on Iraq, but if that was the desired outcome , why not engineer a direct link with Iraq when putting together the 9/11 plot..?
Oh and Ergo , 1) i'm not from the US - so no political axe to grind, and 2) I'm really very very calm - |
"Nac Mac Feegle! The Wee Free Men! Nae king! Nae quin! Nae laird! We willna be fooled again!" -
T. Prattchett - Wee Free Men |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2006 : 08:32:34 [Permalink]
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| those are all interesting points -- but not relevant to the op topic... |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2006 : 09:31:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
And why do you believe that? Silverstein was the landlord.
Because the PANYNJ still owned the property (Silverstein is only leasing it) and because effecting a wholesale management transfer in under seven weeks for such a huge place seems unrealistic. It's actually not important whether people would call Silverstein's company or the PANYNJ, since nobody has made any real-estate money on the destruction of the WTC. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2006 : 09:42:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
And why do you believe that? Silverstein was the landlord.
Because the PANYNJ still owned the property (Silverstein is only leasing it) and because effecting a wholesale management transfer in under seven weeks for such a huge place seems unrealistic. It's actually not important whether people would call Silverstein's company or the PANYNJ, since nobody has made any real-estate money on the destruction of the WTC.
LOL!! |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2006 : 10:17:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
And why do you believe that? Silverstein was the landlord.
Because the PANYNJ still owned the property (Silverstein is only leasing it) and because effecting a wholesale management transfer in under seven weeks for such a huge place seems unrealistic. It's actually not important whether people would call Silverstein's company or the PANYNJ, since nobody has made any real-estate money on the destruction of the WTC.
LOL!!
Okay, so what it basically comes down to is that you have made some far-off scenario but handwave all objections against it. That about right? |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2006 : 12:10:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
LOL!!
Then where's the money?
That's not what I was laughing at. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2006 : 12:22:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
And why do you believe that? Silverstein was the landlord.
Because the PANYNJ still owned the property (Silverstein is only leasing it) and because effecting a wholesale management transfer in under seven weeks for such a huge place seems unrealistic. It's actually not important whether people would call Silverstein's company or the PANYNJ, since nobody has made any real-estate money on the destruction of the WTC.
LOL!!
Okay, so what it basically comes down to is that you have made some far-off scenario but handwave all objections against it. That about right?
I'm not handwaving anything. Dave just handwaved my comment away because "effecting a wholesale management transfer in under seven weeks for such a huge place seems unrealistic." No evidence--just his gut feeling that it "seems unrealistic." That's what he's been chiding me for--having a feeling about something, and he does it without even realizing it. The truth behind the deal is that we don't really know what the deal was, when it was agreed to, what the conditions of the deal were, when Silverstein took over management of the property, when "improvements" were made, etc.
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No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2006 : 12:55:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
The truth behind the deal is that we don't really know what the deal was, when it was agreed to, what the conditions of the deal were, when Silverstein took over management of the property, when "improvements" were made, etc.
So you're saying that we do not know that PANYNJ accepted Silverstein's bid on July 24th, 2001? Is every fact about the case unknowable? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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A simple question
