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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
 Posted - 10/22/2006 : 01:12:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
F
While it is possible i used the back button, i had not used it for any of my other flood-controlled responses--so odds are i did not use it then.
quote:
Of course, this doesn't tell me that you actually saw that message then. It tells me that you don't remember.
 It is implied that i saw it... so odds are i did not use it (when i saw it come up) then...
quote:
As for blaming staff, well, like you and your warning I was pissed. As you can see, when you mentioned you would look into it, i apologized in advance if it was a system problem.
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According to the logs, it wasn't a problem with this system, as you clearly meant.
Does your log show me hitting the back button? If not, how can you be sure?
quote:
I guess the difference between what we do when we realize we've acted in anger is that I apologize and you warn.
quote:
I don't give a rat's ass how holier-than-thou you feel right now, especially since there wasn't a problem on this end, so your apology was meaningless.
Dave, if you really didn't care, you wouldn't have posted such a comment! I think it kind of burns you that you didn't control your emotions so well while I did.
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No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
| Edited by - ergo123 on 10/22/2006 01:16:34 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 05:15:33 [Permalink]
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Re "Kil and Cune both obviously had some problems with Kil's reply 104458 (see the 00:45:34 to 00:50:43 timeframe - what the heck was that, guys?)," I saw that Kil had posted a message where the HTML tags were off such that the quote hierarchy didn't match up. So I tried to fix it.
What's odd-- even though I was too wrapped up in searching for molten metal to notice at the time-- was that I put a notice in red saying that I had edited the post to fix the quote hierarchy, but that didn't show up. Perhaps Kil and I were editing at the same time, and his trumped mine so that my edit and subsequent message was not saved? |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 06:02:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Re "Kil and Cune both obviously had some problems with Kil's reply 104458 (see the 00:45:34 to 00:50:43 timeframe - what the heck was that, guys?)," I saw that Kil had posted a message where the HTML tags were off such that the quote hierarchy didn't match up. So I tried to fix it.
What's odd-- even though I was too wrapped up in searching for molten metal to notice at the time-- was that I put a notice in red saying that I had edited the post to fix the quote hierarchy, but that didn't show up. Perhaps Kil and I were editing at the same time, and his trumped mine so that my edit and subsequent message was not saved?
Don't worry cunie; I'm sure it was something I did wrong. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 06:44:54 [Permalink]
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Dave said:
quote:
That last one was due to pleco deleting a reply of his own creation (events 193-195, and I apologize to you pleco, for letting it be known that you posted something you didn't want posted for eight seconds, I'll make it up to you somehow).
No problem! I did post something, then realized I had misinterpreted what I had read, and that my post was wrong in its entirety. So I removed it. At least as far as I'm concerned, your log is 100% accurate.
Further, I used to run a forum using the Snitz software (I also hosted it on my own server), so I'm quite familiar with how it works.
Good job on the analysis. You definitely went above and beyond on that one. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 07:21:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
ergo123:
Don't worry cunie; I'm sure it was something I did wrong.
We fix problem links and tags all the time. It really does look like Cune and I were working on the problem at the same time. I don't really care since my post was not altered. Only fixed. I also sometimes hit edit as an easy way to copy a link in its original form without having to recreate it. A shortcut. That would show up as an edit too even though all I have done is to copy a link.
ergo, your sarcasm is not warranted. As with your reaction to our policy of closing a thread after 15 pages, you lashed out at Dave and stuck with that view even after it was explained to you our policy on locking long threads. As far as I can see you never offered an apology for that one either.
We take fairness very seriously here. Go look at how other forums treat members they don't agree with and compare sometime. We stand out as one forum that has a mostly hands off policy with regard to moderation as much as we can. And we are proud of that. It is extremely annoying to be accused of being underhanded in our treatment of any member. But even in our anger, you have not been banned, suspended or censured.
A little attitude adjustment by you is in order. On most other sites, your ass would have been shown the door by now based on your bogus accusations alone.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 08:12:38 [Permalink]
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Kil: What do you mean i didn't apologize for that one either? I apologized for this already. Just because the apology is perceived as bogus doesn't make it so.
And my sarcasm is warranted. I explained that i had seen the 'error' message before and had successfully navigated it every time i encountered it. But Dave ignored that information in favor of his 'ergo goofed' hypothesis. Do i think dave cooked the logs to cover up some dastardly deed? No. Do i think he spent a lot of time trying to figure it out? Absolutely--as someone else voiced, it was above and beyond.
I just don't think he figured out what the glitch was--so the easy out was 'ergo goofed.' My history of successfully navigating that flood control page was disregarded--possibly because accepting it meant even more work to figue out the glitch. And btw, i have built and maintain several web sites using a web-based site management system (all the software for building and maintaining the sites in on the net). In that system one never uses the back button--there is always a 'back' link that needs to be used. So I am very accustomed to looking for and using such links.
But like i said before, i can deal with the ambiguity of chalking it up to a chance event--possibly lated to so many people making posts at the same time--a condition that would be difficult to re-create. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 08:42:31 [Permalink]
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Way to miss the point.
What you did that makes us angry is assume that you were singled out for special treatment by the staff because we didn't like your message. Rather than ask why something was done that you didn't understand, you assumed the worst and said so. And you resisted correction, esp. on the 15 page thing. Even now, you will not acknowledge without lots of disclaimer that you might have goofed on this latest thing…
Let me tell you a little story. A few months back I deleted a whole thread accidentally. Now that takes some doing considering that I have been an administrator on this site for what, 8 years now? I'm one of the founders of this site. And yet, I goofed in such a lame way that I would have bet against my ever doing that, given my experience here.
So I wouldn't wave away the possibility that such mistakes happen even to those of us with boatloads of experience.
Shit happens.
In any case, if you had any huevos, and because it is the right thing to do, you would openly apologize to the staff for making unfounded accusations and insinuations…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 11:23:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
It is implied that i saw it...
Not that time, it isn't.quote:
...so odds are i did not use it (when i saw it come up) then...
Odds are that you don't remember whether it came up or not.quote:
Does your log show me hitting the back button? If not, how can you be sure?
The back button itself is irrelevant. The logs show that your browser re-loaded the reply-with-quote page three seconds after you were served the flood control message. I don't really care anymore how you managed to do it.quote:
Dave, if you really didn't care, you wouldn't have posted such a comment! I think it kind of burns you that you didn't control your emotions so well while I did.
No, what I care about is you lying to me. Your apology was contigent only upon there being a glitch with the software here. There is no evidence for such a glitch, so your contigency clause hasn't kicked in, and so you haven't apologized for anything. Yet you have repeatedly claimed that you have apologized.
By the way, since your gloating, self-righteousness and smugness are shining brightly now, and your anger was obvious earlier, you haven't controlled your emotions nearly as well as you think you have. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 12:08:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
Way to miss the point.
What you did that makes us angry is assume that you were singled out for special treatment by the staff because we didn't like your message. Rather than ask why something was done that you didn't understand, you assumed the worst and said so. And you resisted correction, esp. on the 15 page thing. Even now, you will not acknowledge without lots of disclaimer that you might have goofed on this latest thing…
Let me tell you a little story. A few months back I deleted a whole thread accidentally. Now that takes some doing considering that I have been an administrator on this site for what, 8 years now? I'm one of the founders of this site. And yet, I goofed in such a lame way that I would have bet against my ever doing that, given my experience here.
So I wouldn't wave away the possibility that such mistakes happen even to those of us with boatloads of experience.
Shit happens.
In any case, if you had any huevos, and because it is the right thing to do, you would openly apologize to the staff for making unfounded accusations and insinuations…
I didn't think I was singled out because of the content of the message--the message was completely benign.
But your continued incorrect assumptions about my motivations are telling. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 13:04:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
It is implied that i saw it...
Not that time, it isn't.quote:
...so odds are i did not use it (when i saw it come up) then...
Odds are that you don't remember whether it came up or not.quote:
Does your log show me hitting the back button? If not, how can you be sure?
The back button itself is irrelevant. The logs show that your browser re-loaded the reply-with-quote page three seconds after you were served the flood control message. I don't really care anymore how you managed to do it.quote:
Dave, if you really didn't care, you wouldn't have posted such a comment! I think it kind of burns you that you didn't control your emotions so well while I did.
No, what I care about is you lying to me. Your apology was contigent only upon there being a glitch with the software here. There is no evidence for such a glitch, so your contigency clause hasn't kicked in, and so you haven't apologized for anything. Yet you have repeatedly claimed that you have apologized.
By the way, since your gloating, self-righteousness and smugness are shining brightly now, and your anger was obvious earlier, you haven't controlled your emotions nearly as well as you think you have.
Why do you assume I'm lying? When one uses the link to return to the reply box, does it usually delete what people have typed? If not, you likely had a glitch. I don't think you have evidence of me using the back button; and i'm confident i used the link. Given my experience with back links on this and other sites, the glitch hypothesis is the most likely. And that is the one I apologized for.
But as far as I'm concerned, I'm done with the matter. The keyboard on my phone sometimes deletes letters instead of typing them. Usually just the 'l' and the 'i.' It's just a glitch. Probably related to activities in the phone i'm not aware of. It's just not that big of a deal to waste a lot of time on.
I'm sorry if you feel I did not apologize for the right thing. But that's the way life goes sometimes. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 13:07:19 [Permalink]
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Way to miss the point again...
quote:
ergo123:
I didn't think I was singled out because of the content of the message--the message was completely benign.
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Kil isn't the one acting close-minded, you are, ergo.
That's a riot coming from the guy who deletes my comments and evidence after asking for it for days!
quote:
Ergo123:
But there IS evidence of explosive demolition as outlined in my other thread--the one Dave locked because he was being proven wrong...
quote:
Ergo123:
Do you realize Dave's decision to lock the thread was driven first by emotion--like all our decisions are? If you are unaware of this, read DiMassio's "Descartes Error." Dave mentions his rational reason for locking the thread. But the thread had been on its 15th page for a while. It wasn't until he was feeling up against the ropes that he locked it. So I guess until you can prove my theory wrong, we'll have to consider it the probable reason for Dave locking the thread when he did.
quote:
ergo123:
Alternative conclusion: Dave locked the thread when he did because he was frustrated I had him on the ropes. You have yet to prove this alternative conclusion wrong.
Boldings mine.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 16:25:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
Why do you assume I'm lying?
I don't assume any such thing, I've concluded it from the available evidence.quote:
When one uses the link to return to the reply box, does it usually delete what people have typed? If not, you likely had a glitch.
As soon as you can provide evidence that a client-side function is a glitch in the "system," I'll seriously entertain that option.quote:
I don't think you have evidence of me using the back button; and i'm confident i used the link.
The logs say that you did not.quote:
Given my experience with back links on this and other sites, the glitch hypothesis is the most likely.
No, it's refuted by the logs.quote:
And that is the one I apologized for.
Right, you did not apologize for your accusations.quote:
I'm sorry if you feel I did not apologize for the right thing.
Another apology with an "if" in it. Why am I not surprised?quote:
But that's the way life goes sometimes.
It's the way the forums go, too. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 16:47:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
Why do you assume I'm lying?
I don't assume any such thing, I've concluded it from the available evidence.quote:
When one uses the link to return to the reply box, does it usually delete what people have typed? If not, you likely had a glitch.
As soon as you can provide evidence that a client-side function is a glitch in the "system," I'll seriously entertain that option.quote:
I don't think you have evidence of me using the back button; and i'm confident i used the link.
The logs say that you did not.quote:
Given my experience with back links on this and other sites, the glitch hypothesis is the most likely.
No, it's refuted by the logs.quote:
And that is the one I apologized for.
Right, you did not apologize for your accusations.quote:
I'm sorry if you feel I did not apologize for the right thing.
Another apology with an "if" in it. Why am I not surprised?quote:
But that's the way life goes sometimes.
It's the way the forums go, too.
When one uses the link to return to the reply box, does it usually delete what people have typed? |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 17:20:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
When one uses the link to return to the reply box, does it usually delete what people have typed?
When one uses the link, your browser shouldn't ask for the page over again. That's why it shouldn't delete what you've typed. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 21:42:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
When one uses the link to return to the reply box, does it usually delete what people have typed?
When one uses the link, your browser shouldn't ask for the page over again. That's why it shouldn't delete what you've typed.
Well "shouldn't" isn't "doesn't."
My keyboard "shouldn't" delete characters when I tap them out. But sometimes it does. When it does, it's because of a glitch in the system.
In your lengthy post on page 1 you said: "But instead of clicking the helpful link that would have taken you back with your previewed post intact, my hypothesis (well, actually, it's the best possible theory we've got about this incident) is that you clicked the "Back" button in your browser, which probably erased everything you typed, and left the edit box in the state it was right after you clicked the "Reply with Quote" button the first time, at 18:19:48." Emphasis added.
I have given you information about my familiarity with the flood-control page and my frequent use of "back links" rather than using the back button on my browser. That information, along with the uncertainty you have with key aspects of your hypothesis, make the "glitch theory" the best one we have at the moment. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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It seems very strange to me
