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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
 Posted - 10/23/2006 : 05:13:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
In your lengthy post on page 1 you said: "But instead of clicking the helpful link that would have taken you back with your previewed post intact, my hypothesis (well, actually, it's the best possible theory we've got about this incident) is that you clicked the "Back" button in your browser, which probably erased everything you typed, and left the edit box in the state it was right after you clicked the "Reply with Quote" button the first time, at 18:19:48." Emphasis added.
Fine, my hypothesis is thereby revised: something about your browser screwed up so that it reloaded the "reply with quote" page. Either you hit "back," or you hit "refresh" or "reload," or your Web browser is simply broken. There is no evidence that there is anything wrong with this system.quote:
That information, along with the uncertainty you have with key aspects of your hypothesis, make the "glitch theory" the best one we have at the moment.
Yes, a glitch in your computer and/or head. There is no uncertainty about what the logs contain regarding the incident in question. The only question is "why did ergo's browser reload a page inappropriately?" |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2006 : 07:39:19 [Permalink]
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Face it Dave, there are 3 possibilities: 1) your system has an error; 2) I made an error; or 3) there was a temporary problem--a glitch if you will--that occurred.
You can't find an error with the system, ruling out 1. I know I used the back link, ruling out 2. That leaves a glitch.
Could the glitch have been related to the interaction of the forum system and my computer? While not an expert in these issues I've talked to enough tech support people to know it can happen.
Since glitches are notoriously difficult to reproduce, it is not surprising you can't manage to reproduce it.
What is surprising is that in the face of the available evidence, you still cling to the 'ergo123' made an error--or now, ergo123's browser made an error--theory. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2006 : 08:18:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
Face it Dave, there are 3 possibilities: 1) your system has an error; 2) I made an error; or 3) there was a temporary problem--a glitch if you will--that occurred.
You can't find an error with the system, ruling out 1. I know I used the back link, ruling out 2. That leaves a glitch.
Could the glitch have been related to the interaction of the forum system and my computer? While not an expert in these issues I've talked to enough tech support people to know it can happen.
Since glitches are notoriously difficult to reproduce, it is not surprising you can't manage to reproduce it.
What is surprising is that in the face of the available evidence, you still cling to the 'ergo123' made an error--or now, ergo123's browser made an error--theory.
This is just too funny. The only evidence that ergo considers valid is his gut feelings, and not the real evidence (from the logs). This is humorous (to me anyway) because it is just so obvious and yet he doesn't get it.
I do application support. Ergo sounds like a typical user swearing up and down that "no way did I do anything wrong." At least when I demonstrate that they did indeed do something wrong, I usually get some kind of a sheepish apology.
We have a code for this kind of call - ID10T. |
"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2006 : 08:27:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by leoofno
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
Face it Dave, there are 3 possibilities: 1) your system has an error; 2) I made an error; or 3) there was a temporary problem--a glitch if you will--that occurred.
You can't find an error with the system, ruling out 1. I know I used the back link, ruling out 2. That leaves a glitch.
Could the glitch have been related to the interaction of the forum system and my computer? While not an expert in these issues I've talked to enough tech support people to know it can happen.
Since glitches are notoriously difficult to reproduce, it is not surprising you can't manage to reproduce it.
What is surprising is that in the face of the available evidence, you still cling to the 'ergo123' made an error--or now, ergo123's browser made an error--theory.
This is just too funny. The only evidence that ergo considers valid is his gut feelings, and not the real evidence (from the logs). This is humorous (to me anyway) because it is just so obvious and yet he doesn't get it.
I do application support. Ergo sounds like a typical user swearing up and down that "no way did I do anything wrong." At least when I demonstrate that they did indeed do something wrong, I usually get some kind of a sheepish apology.
We have a code for this kind of call - ID10T.
The "real evidence" you refer to just shows a reload of the 'reply with quote' page. Are you saying it is impossible for a glitch to have occurred surrounding that event? If so, I'd like to see evidence supporting that claim. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2006 : 08:56:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
ergo123:
The "real evidence" you refer to just shows a reload of the 'reply with quote' page. Are you saying it is impossible for a glitch to have occurred surrounding that event? If so, I'd like to see evidence supporting that claim.
Talk about patterns. This is ergo in a nut shell. The likelihood is that it was user error. But putting that aside, what is irrefutable is that ergo made unfounded accusations against Dave that he refuses to apologies for.
He hasn't the balls to admit his error and apologies for it.
If he responds to this post it will be to deny that he ever accused Dave of being underhanded even though the posts are there for all to see. Or he will justify his accusation by saying that Dave wasn't aware of the underlying subconscious reasons for his taking administrative action, which is completely unfalsifiable and therefore covers his ass.
I'm just disgusted with him at this point…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2006 : 08:59:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
quote:
Originally posted by leoofno
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
Face it Dave, there are 3 possibilities: 1) your system has an error; 2) I made an error; or 3) there was a temporary problem--a glitch if you will--that occurred.
You can't find an error with the system, ruling out 1. I know I used the back link, ruling out 2. That leaves a glitch.
Could the glitch have been related to the interaction of the forum system and my computer? While not an expert in these issues I've talked to enough tech support people to know it can happen.
Since glitches are notoriously difficult to reproduce, it is not surprising you can't manage to reproduce it.
What is surprising is that in the face of the available evidence, you still cling to the 'ergo123' made an error--or now, ergo123's browser made an error--theory.
This is just too funny. The only evidence that ergo considers valid is his gut feelings, and not the real evidence (from the logs). This is humorous (to me anyway) because it is just so obvious and yet he doesn't get it.
I do application support. Ergo sounds like a typical user swearing up and down that "no way did I do anything wrong." At least when I demonstrate that they did indeed do something wrong, I usually get some kind of a sheepish apology.
We have a code for this kind of call - ID10T.
The "real evidence" you refer to just shows a reload of the 'reply with quote' page. Are you saying it is impossible for a glitch to have occurred surrounding that event? If so, I'd like to see evidence supporting that claim.
Unless God comes down to tell us what happened, we have to deal with probabilities. The most probable explanation for the log is that you pressed the "Back" button since that would produce the observed entry. Using the "link" would have caused a different entry in the log. Your claim that you did not hit "Back" is based only on your feeling that you would not have done that.
Could it have been a glitch? Yup. Is it likely? Nope. It has been my experience that an isolated incident like this, limited to a single user, is almost always due to user error. I deal with a lot of experienced users, and they all make simple mistakes from time to time. And really, its no big deal. I really don't understand your problem with this. |
"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2006 : 09:09:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
ergo123:
The "real evidence" you refer to just shows a reload of the 'reply with quote' page. Are you saying it is impossible for a glitch to have occurred surrounding that event? If so, I'd like to see evidence supporting that claim.
Talk about patterns. This is ergo in a nut shell. The likelihood is that it was user error. But putting that aside, what is irrefutable is that ergo made unfounded accusations against Dave that he refuses to apologies for.
.... stuff deleted and bolding of the sentence above is above mine (leoofno)
Damn, Kil. You must be psychic 'cause that's exactly what I wrote earlier, but then deleted : "This is ergo-in-a-nutshell: that he believes his gut feelings at the expense of the real evidence".
I have a sheet of paper on the top of my shelf with a word written on it facing up. What does it say? I'll split the million bucks with you.
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"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2006 : 09:26:08 [Permalink]
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I've never been a big fan of people who chime in and say, "leave the administrator alone, he's not making any money from you and he's a nice guy so just let it go," but leave Dave and Kil alone, they're not making any money from you and they're nice guys, so just let it go!
Say you don't understand what happened, you must have been out of your mind for assuming that mods deleted your post, and leave it go. If it continues to happen, then maybe you just need to find another forum.
If Dave did it, he wouldn't have any problem telling you that he did it, why he did it, and the conditions under which he'd do it again.
Do I always agree with these guys? No. The record is clear on that, but if you don't like these guys, let me take you on a tour of arrogant, poorly educated site owners who don't allow discussions that they don't like. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2006 : 10:04:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
I've never been a big fan of people who chime in and say, "leave the administrator alone, he's not making any money from you and he's a nice guy so just let it go," but leave Dave and Kil alone, they're not making any money from you and they're nice guys, so just let it go!
Say you don't understand what happened, you must have been out of your mind for assuming that mods deleted your post, and leave it go. If it continues to happen, then maybe you just need to find another forum.
If Dave did it, he wouldn't have any problem telling you that he did it, why he did it, and the conditions under which he'd do it again.
Do I always agree with these guys? No. The record is clear on that, but if you don't like these guys, let me take you on a tour of arrogant, poorly educated site owners who don't allow discussions that they don't like.
Good advice Gorgo.
Dave actually admitted to deleting content from a couple of my posts. He gave sound reasons for doing so. But I feel no apology is needed for accurately describing what he did.
The controversy over the "back link" is beyond me. But if dave and kil want to believe their version of what must have happened, I guess it's no different from me believing my version. From the perspective of my version, they owe me an apology for accusing me of jumping to inappropriate conclusions based on what they thought was my error.
So I guess this will just end with both sides feeling unsatisfied in that respect.
But I have no perceptions that I was singled out beyond what dave has already admitted to. And I guess I'm not going to change the perceptions of people who speak of the certainty of probabilities.
It reminds me of Wolf Blitzer's comments on a political poll that showed Bush at 44% and Kerry at 42% with a 4% margin of error. Wolf said something like "Although the difference between the two is within the margin of error for the poll, Bush is still ahead." I didn't know whether to  or 
So, Dave and kil... I'm moving past this one. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2006 : 19:22:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
I've never been a big fan of people who chime in and say, "leave the administrator alone, he's not making any money from you and he's a nice guy so just let it go," but leave Dave and Kil alone, they're not making any money from you and they're nice guys, so just let it go!
Say you don't understand what happened, you must have been out of your mind for assuming that mods deleted your post, and leave it go. If it continues to happen, then maybe you just need to find another forum.
If Dave did it, he wouldn't have any problem telling you that he did it, why he did it, and the conditions under which he'd do it again.
Do I always agree with these guys? No. The record is clear on that, but if you don't like these guys, let me take you on a tour of arrogant, poorly educated site owners who don't allow discussions that they don't like.
Hey, Gorgo: it is because of how and how much you and I have disagreed that I really appreciate this post. Thanks. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2006 : 22:21:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
I've never been a big fan of people who chime in and say, "leave the administrator alone, he's not making any money from you and he's a nice guy so just let it go," but leave Dave and Kil alone, they're not making any money from you and they're nice guys, so just let it go!
Say you don't understand what happened, you must have been out of your mind for assuming that mods deleted your post, and leave it go. If it continues to happen, then maybe you just need to find another forum.
If Dave did it, he wouldn't have any problem telling you that he did it, why he did it, and the conditions under which he'd do it again.
Do I always agree with these guys? No. The record is clear on that, but if you don't like these guys, let me take you on a tour of arrogant, poorly educated site owners who don't allow discussions that they don't like.
Hey, Gorgo: it is because of how and how much you and I have disagreed that I really appreciate this post. Thanks.
Well, I'm just here supporting Dave. I am absolutely appalled that ergo will not even entertain the idea of user error when that sort of thing happens to all of us. And I am even more appalled that he will not acknowledge the accusations he made when Dave locked his thread and offer an apology like any normal person would do after he lost his cool.
Anyhow, thanks Gorgo. I deeply appreciate your kind words.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2006 : 05:59:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by leoofno
Could it have been a glitch? Yup. Is it likely? Nope. It has been my experience that an isolated incident like this, limited to a single user, is almost always due to user error. I deal with a lot of experienced users, and they all make simple mistakes from time to time. And really, its no big deal. I really don't understand your problem with this.
I am the sole IT staff for a facility with 150-200 users and all the attendant servers, printers, network infrastructure, etc. etc. etc. I am with leoofno in that 999 times out of 1000, the problem is OE: operator error. Especially when this problem is isolated to one individual. There are many other symptoms that I noticed in the description of how the problems occurred which only serve to reinforce this conclusion. This all relates to fault analysis, which I am sure that leoofno and other IT professionals are very familiar with.
Additionally, these problems happen with EVERYONE...from experienced users to "computer-illiterates". Heck, I always tell my users that the only reason that I know most of the stuff I know is because I made the same mistakes--usually several times. And half the time, when I am trying to solve a problem, it is usually by dumb luck that I stumble on the solution. That is why I have my "Big Book o' IT Knowledge"...I record what I did to solve a problem and put it in a 3-ring binder that I carry with me. That way, when the same problem happens again, a year or two down the road, I don't have to fumble around again. There is no shame in admitting error.
What I hate is the phantom "glitch" which always somehow absolves the user of fault. If it's not a "glitch", it's a "bug" or the ever-present "virus".
Yet we are supposed to take this "analysis", this "gut feeling" from someone who doesn't even understand that an extra period in a HTML link will render it useless.
Ergo, you were wrong and you owe the moderators an apology. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2006 : 08:45:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
I've never been a big fan of people who chime in and say, "leave the administrator alone, he's not making any money from you and he's a nice guy so just let it go," but leave Dave and Kil alone, they're not making any money from you and they're nice guys, so just let it go!
Say you don't understand what happened, you must have been out of your mind for assuming that mods deleted your post, and leave it go. If it continues to happen, then maybe you just need to find another forum.
If Dave did it, he wouldn't have any problem telling you that he did it, why he did it, and the conditions under which he'd do it again.
Do I always agree with these guys? No. The record is clear on that, but if you don't like these guys, let me take you on a tour of arrogant, poorly educated site owners who don't allow discussions that they don't like.
Hey, Gorgo: it is because of how and how much you and I have disagreed that I really appreciate this post. Thanks.
Well, I'm just here supporting Dave. I am absolutely appalled that ergo will not even entertain the idea of user error when that sort of thing happens to all of us. And I am even more appalled that he will not acknowledge the accusations he made when Dave locked his thread and offer an apology like any normal person would do after he lost his cool.
Anyhow, thanks Gorgo. I deeply appreciate your kind words.
Interesting development on this...
While on another thread I encountered the flood control screen. I clicked the link to "correct the problem," and, as expected, the text I had written was still there.
Then I decided to do a little test. I replied to kil's response to my Debunk or Just Bunk topic--where he points out that my first link didn't work as typed. I typed in a few random letters so as to be able to "post new reply" within 60 seconds of the previous post I made. I got the flood control screen again.
Then I hit the "back" button on my browser. And there was the reply with quote box--AND MY RANDOMLY TYPED LETTERS. They had not vanished.
So it seems the "user error" theory has been refuted. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2006 : 09:07:24 [Permalink]
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I haven't the technical skill to address the above. I'm sure someone else will comment.
This still doesn't address the accusations of malicious intent for locking your thread or for this choice comment.
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Kil isn't the one acting close-minded, you are, ergo.
That's a riot coming from the guy who deletes my comments and evidence after asking for it for days!
On the locking of your thread thing, I guess you're sticking with your conclusion that Dave did it because you had him “on the ropes.”
Even though locking threads at 15 pages is policy here.
Being wrong is not an option for you I guess…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2006 : 09:16:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
So it seems the "user error" theory has been refuted.
Did you try refreshing, reloading, or opening a new window? The back button was never the only option. Your browser reloaded the page, ergo. Your browser sent the requests (three for the HTML and Java sources for the page itself, and 63 more individual requests for the smilies and other graphics). However it did that, there is absolutely no evidence that the problem was a glitch in this system. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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It seems very strange to me
